Best newbie honing setup.$250

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03-06-2012, 04:39 AM
Chefbaze

Best newbie honing setup.$250

Hi Guys ,

Im Still at it and undecided. I bought a coticule and returned it. I want to know, with.a.budget of $250,
What's the best setup for a newbie like me to get started and be content for years to come. A coticule? Nortin 4/8k? Shapton? ???? There are just too many choices, and I have a limited.Budget. Ill mostly use the setup tp maintain an edge after being honed Lynn or the like. And then use the same.setip.to nm practice on old razors....I already have a.3” dovo russian leather xl.strop , whipped dog balsa and poor mans strop maybe for pastes. What else would I need for under $250 to be set? I'm about to cal Ardennes and dump.the whole $250.on a175x50 la veinette and call it a day, but wanted to check here first..

Thanks,
Basil
P.s. My razors are a RedImp Case Wedge, and a Red Imp 133 out that named anything..
I got the ad s bad
03-06-2012, 05:15 AM
gssixgun

You should wait at least 6 months then start honing,

But like so many people you won't :)

Spend half that and get the Norton starter set 220-1k 4k-8k Take the time to learn how to use it since that set will hone any razor in any condition,, Then after you have mastered that and don't NEED a finisher, you will know which one to buy without asking us...

g
03-06-2012, 05:33 AM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You should wait at least 6 months then start honing,

But like so many people you won't :)

Spend half that and get the Norton starter set 220-1k 4k-8k Take the time to learn how to use it since that set will hone any razor in any condition,, Then after you have mastered that and don't NEED a finisher, you will know which one to buy without asking us...

g

Thank You. Norton it is.. Now aside.from. the norton setup, what would.i need to keep my recipes in tip top shape in between jonings by Lynn or the like? Paddle strop.w/pastes? Finishing stone?

Thanks
03-06-2012, 05:37 AM
gssixgun

HUH????

:shrug:
03-06-2012, 05:43 AM
mjsorkin

How did you manage a return with Jarrod and his "no return" policy?

Michael
03-06-2012, 05:44 AM
SixNipples

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chefbaze

Thank You. Norton it is.. Now aside.from. the norton setup, what would.i need to keep my recipes in tip top shape in between jonings by Lynn or the like? Paddle strop.w/pastes? Finishing stone?

Thanks

I think someone's been in the special brownie recipes ....
03-06-2012, 05:45 AM
Chefbaze

[QUOTE=gssixgun;934399]HUH????

:shrug:[/]

Sorry. Lol.. Autofill sux..

Aside from the norton 4/8k. I have a 3” strop and a piece of cheap balsa for cro ox. What would I need to keep my razors in top shape in between honing by lynn, until I learn? A finishing stone? Just pastes? Paddle strop?
03-06-2012, 05:47 AM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixNipples

I think someone's been in the special brownie recipes ....

Nah, no special brownies... But I did just get some pain killers from the dentist
03-06-2012, 05:49 AM
pinklather

Hey Chef,

I'm grinning, 'cause like yourself, I didn't listen to the cousel to wait 6 mo before honing. 'Wish I had.

I think Glen tells ya right. That Norton setup probably can't be outdone to learn with. Get so you have a good shave from the Norton 8, and you'll be miles ahead with most other gucci rocks.

If you would like a hand in the mean time w/ edges, pm me. 'Just pick up postage & envelope.
03-06-2012, 05:54 AM
gssixgun

Sorry Basil you lost me..

You asked what set you should buy to maintain your razors, so let me put this more direct, You Don't need anything else other than the Norton set...Period

That set does everything on every razor in every condition from e-bay crapola to a touch up...

If you start with just touching up razors that Lynn honed as they start to lose the edge there are actual pyramid recipes laid out for that lap by lap.. The Nortons have more info on this forum then any other set of hones... Thousands of posts dedicated to these hones...

If you start thinking in the terms of "what next" you will end up chasing your tail instead of learning to hone...

g

ps: there is a brand new vid on my youtube channel of a brand new honer using the Norton 4/8 actually touching up a Dovo that was origianlly honed by Lynn and had finally started to slip.. Watch the vid that is what you need to learn to do

Google "gssixgun honing with speedster"
03-06-2012, 06:04 AM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjsorkin

How did you manage a return with Jarrod and his "no return" policy?

Michael

I didn't. I exchanged the bout which had a divot on the top edge of the stone after he said it was lapped, then tells me to go buy this grit and that grit sandpaper and lap it myself! That the divot is below the honing plane and won't affect.anything! The chips on the side of the stone were.2mm off the axis and the divot Is below the honing plane. Nice, as soon as I'm done.honing I'll make.sure I apply some primer and slag , and get to work on my:td quadrants...Come on! lose the technical mumbo jumbo.Now I realize this is very common stuff here. Im sure it was a great stone, but I'm sorry, for over $100 I shouldn't have to lap anything, especially when I specifically asked for it to be done. I wanted a nice flat stone, so that I have a good baseline point of reference, the same way they recommend a professionally honed razor, for a newbie, so that you have a point of reference.. Anyway, to be fair to them, I'm a tough customer, a pain in the arse at times, and as you can see from this thread, a little overzealous. But only because Im very green, and want to do things the right way...Anyway, that s all...I guess he started out very helpful, and quickly became very impatient, I guess I can do that to folks...:gaah:
03-06-2012, 07:22 AM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinklather

Hey Chef,

I'm grinning, 'cause like yourself, I didn't listen to the cousel to wait 6 mo before honing. 'Wish I had.

I think Glen tells ya right. That Norton setup probably can't be outdone to learn with. Get so you have a good shave from the Norton 8, and you'll be miles ahead with most other gucci rocks.

If you would like a hand in the mean time w/ edges, pm me. 'Just pick up postage & envelope.

Awesome thanks!
03-06-2012, 07:24 AM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinklather

Hey Chef,

I'm grinning, 'cause like yourself, I didn't listen to the cousel to wait 6 mo before honing. 'Wish I had.

I think Glen tells ya right. That Norton setup probably can't be outdone to learn with. Get so you have a good shave from the Norton 8, and you'll be miles ahead with most other gucci rocks.

If you would like a hand in the mean time w/ edges, pm me. 'Just pick up postage & envelope.

Awesome thanks!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You don't know what a relief that is to hear. I'm ordering the norton right away!
03-06-2012, 07:35 AM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chefbaze

Awesome thanks!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! You don't know what a relief that is to hear. I'm ordering the norton right away!

So the norton can be used to just touch typo and ” refresh” a hone job by a pro, like lynn? My while thing its, I have a very tough beard and want to maintain an extremely sharp edge. While I learn.. I'll probably buy a couple of whipped dog beatets, to practice honing on
03-06-2012, 08:24 AM
chay2K

Hey brother, I know that you're excited about this whole thing, and want to dive in head first-- but, you might wanna slow your roll a little here. The thing about wet shaving, and especially honing, is that it's less about the equipment and more about technique. If you have the means, go ahead and buy whatever it is that strikes your fancy-- but, the name of the game here is patience in developing new skills. Through proper shaving and stropping technique, a shave ready razor can be kept in that state for many months; I too have a coarse beard, and generally go at least six months between touchups.

I'm not telling you not to buy a hone, because I know that we all will do it anyway; rather, instead of running to the rocks at any sign of edge degradation, try and figure out what you might do differently to prolong the life of that edge. After all, we'd all hate to see those two Imps of yours worn down to useless nubs prematurely. Your grandsons will be pretty pissed at you if if they don't get a chance to inherit those bad boys:beer2:
03-06-2012, 09:03 AM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by chay2K

Hey brother, I know that you're excited about this whole thing, and want to dive in head first-- but, you might wanna slow your roll a little here. The thing about wet shaving, and especially honing, is that it's less about the equipment and more about technique. If you have the means, go ahead and buy whatever it is that strikes your fancy-- but, the name of the game here is patience in developing new skills. Through proper shaving and stropping technique, a shave ready razor can be kept in that state for many months; I too have a coarse beard, and generally go at least six months between touchups.

I'm not telling you not to buy a hone, because I know that we all will do it anyway; rather, instead of running to the rocks at any sign of edge degradation, try and figure out what you might do differently to prolong the life of that edge. After all, we'd all hate to see those two Imps of yours worn down to useless nubs prematurely. Your grandsons will be pretty pissed at you if if they don't get a chance to inherit those bad boys:beer2:

Thank you!! Completely understand ya brother.., I just wanna buy whatever is needed, and not have to worry about it again. My plan is to buy, a few junk.razors and practice......and practice.... And practice.. Believe me, even though the imps arent mastro livi damascus blades, it took allot of work to find them in that good shape, so their pretty darn valuable to me.

Thanks
Basil
03-06-2012, 02:36 PM
gssixgun

Slow Down !!!!

Basil,

I will answer your pm's here, so it helps everyone

"What's a good finishing stone to go with the norton 4/8k. And.also one.to.set bevels. Our is it necessary. I don't know why, but I still want a.coticule"

Ok This tells me a few things

1. You are way to excited about this, and you are not even reading the two posts that I put up to help you, Besides the other guys trying to help, if you want a Coticule then buy a Coticule and learn how to use it..

2, Chay2k, Pinklather, and I have already given you the best advice first .. "Wait and learn how to shave for about 6 months before diving into honing..

3. The Norton set contains everything you need for the 3rd and final time, I can't be any more clear (go back and re-read the posts)

"Also, I'm assuming its wise to get a.hollow.and a wedge, beaters to practice on? Where can u buy these?"
You lost me again, here

My advice is to not buy anything for at least 6 months
03-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Lynn

I normally tell new guys that when the razor starts to pull, try 5-10 no pressure strokes on chromium oxide or .5 diamond followed by 50-60 regular stropping strokes on leather. That should re-fresh a razor for quite a while and can be done numerous times. When that quits working, then a finishing stone like the Naniwa 12K, Shapton Glass 16K, Coticule, barber hone or even the Norton 8K will work either on their own or followed by the paste or spray and then stropping. Again, just 5-10 no pressure strokes on the stone. A razor can be maintained almost indefinitely like this. An alternative is a finishing pyramid on the Norton 4K/8K.

If you feel you just have to hone, I think that the Naniwa Chosera 1K, Norton 4K/8K or Naniwa SS 5K/8K or Shapton Glass 4K/8K followed by the finisher of your choice is the optimal set up simply because, in my opinion, this set up for most people has brought success the quickest. Honing like shaving is not something that just happens because of the stones you decide to buy. They all have a learning curve after you develop a good stroke, figure out what no pressure really means and learn how to use your individual stones.

Keep in mind that we all have preference on how a stone feels and performs. Some like softer feeling stones like the Naniwa SS, some like harder feeling stones like the Shapton Glass, others like different stones including Naturals which can be used for the entire process after bevel setting. The cost of these stones all vary. It is really hard to determine what you will like too unless you have some insight to your tactile abilities and preferences already. Add this to the overwhelming volume of information out there today along with others preferences, bias and agendas and you're in for a journey. To me, it has always been worth that journey.

Have fun.
03-06-2012, 03:09 PM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn

I normally tell new guys that when the razor starts to pull, try 5-10 no pressure strokes on chromium oxide or .5 diamond followed by 50-60 regular stropping strokes on leather. That should re-fresh a razor for quite a while and can be done numerous times. When that quits working, then a finishing stone like the Naniwa 12K, Shapton Glass 16K, Coticule, barber hone or even the Norton 8K will work either on their own or followed by the paste or spray and then stropping. Again, just 5-10 no pressure strokes on the stone. A razor can be maintained almost indefinitely like this. An alternative is a finishing pyramid on the Norton 4K/8K.

If you feel you just have to hone, I think that the Naniwa Chosera 1K, Norton 4K/8K or Naniwa SS 5K/8K or Shapton Glass 4K/8K followed by the finisher of your choice is the optimal set up simply because, in my opinion, this set up for most people has brought success the quickest. Honing like shaving is not something that just happens because of the stones you decide to buy. They all have a learning curve after you develop a good stroke, figure out what no pressure really means and learn how to use your individual stones.

Keep in mind that we all have preference on how a stone feels and performs. Some like softer feeling stones like the Naniwa SS, some like harder feeling stones like the Shapton Glass, others like different stones including Naturals which can be used for the entire process after bevel setting. The cost of these stones all vary. It is really hard to determine what you will like too unless you have some insight to your tactile abilities and preferences already. Add this to the overwhelming volume of information out there today along with others preferences, bias and agendas and you're in for a journey. To me, it has always been worth that journey.

Have fun.

Wonderful post Lynn. Thank you.!
03-06-2012, 03:37 PM
CaliforniaCajun

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

You should wait at least 6 months then start honing,

But like so many people you won't :)

Spend half that and get the Norton starter set 220-1k 4k-8k Take the time to learn how to use it since that set will hone any razor in any condition,, Then after you have mastered that and don't NEED a finisher, you will know which one to buy without asking us...

g

I was helped a lot with your YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y53SL9QMq6I. At least, it helped me bring around a razor that I couldn't get right (and I have been straight shaving two years).
03-06-2012, 04:50 PM
Chefbaze

Awesome information, thanks everyone..

Believe me, I won't be shaving with anything I hone for a long time. Feather blades tug and pull on my beard if I use more than twice. I enjoy a smooth shave too much to suffer irritating shaves at the hands of a hack hone job by yours truly...What I do plan on doing, is getting 2 beater razors. One wedge, and one hollow, for practice honing, and my imps will go to Lynn for the foreseeable future..

One question is the cheap poor mans strop by whipped dog, suitable for cro-ox? Or am I better off with that balsa shim whipped dog provides..or spend yet more $ on a paddle?
03-06-2012, 04:58 PM
Tylerbrycen

Gssixgun is right the new video he made with mark is amazingly helpful here is the link YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
03-06-2012, 06:22 PM
Chefbaze

Thanks everyone. So here it is...
I bought a notion 4/8 k
A La Veinette Coticule 200x50 from ardennes
These will be on standby, ill try to wait 6 months but I doubt that will happen.
Also have
3” Dovo XL strop
Whipped dog strop
Balsa from whipped dog
Red imp 132
Red imo 133

That folks is my setup!
03-06-2012, 06:53 PM
Jimbo

Put your effort into learning how to strop well and you could make your edges last a very long time between professional honings, or even touch ups on CrOx. Apart from that bit of advice, your setup looks eminently workable.

I wish you well in your endeavours!

James.
03-06-2012, 07:11 PM
Chefbaze

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Put your effort into learning how to strop well and you could make your edges last a very long time between professional honings, or even touch ups on CrOx. Apart from that bit of advice, your setup looks eminently workable.

I wish you well in your endeavours!

James.

Thanks..
Im gonna lock the hones away til after summer. I just couldn't help myself from buying them..
Well maybe I'll mess around with a junker for fun..
Regards,
Basil
03-06-2012, 08:53 PM
mjsorkin

It's terrible to think of that coticule just languishing until the summer. You had better find someone willing to use it for a couple of months, "break it in" for you so it's ready when you want to start using it.

-----Michael
03-06-2012, 09:36 PM
Speedster

HAD happens! I told Glen, heck promised, that I would stick with the Norton 4/8 until the Yakima meet on Cinco de Mayo. So what did I order last week? Naniwas! I am a bald-faced liar!

Now everyone knows.

:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chefbaze

Thanks..
Im gonna lock the hones away til after summer. I just couldn't help myself from buying them..
Well maybe I'll mess around with a junker for fun..
Regards,
Basil