My Biggest Problem

Probably about a month or so ago I purchased a straight and have generaly enjoyed the experience. I only use it when I'm willing to take the time to go slow and learn, and for the other times I use my alternate method. I have been doing fine and my confidence has grown. I have not cut myself for a while now (knock on wood). Anyway, ever since I started I have had issues with doing the tip (or cleft I think) of my chin. The main problem is that it is very uncomfortable. It feels as though I am pulling on many beard hairs all at once until it finaly cuts. It generaly takes several passes since the discomfort usually causes me to stop the stroke. If anyone has any insight I would appreciate it.

Also, I'm not sure that I am making my lather correctly. The video by Lynn is great. But it doesn't show the lather making process well. I have been pretty much winging it with varying results. If anyone might know of a link to a vid that shows the process better it would be very usefull.

Thanks ahead of time for any help provided.

Jeremy

It may sound scary, but going with a pronounce cutting angle, that is the tip of the razor noticibly leading the heel, makes for easier cutting and more safety actually since your chin isn't getting hung up on the edge.

X

here's a video that has a barbers demostration for straight shaving; start to finish. It doesn't go into great detail about the lather, but you might find it helpful.

I think the chin is the toughest part to shave well for a lot of us. Getting that nice and clean along with shaving against the grain are the two best tests of razor sharpness for me.

Assuming your razor is sufficiently sharp, leading with the toe does help as mentioned above. You may discover the difference between a scything (good) and a slicing (bad) stroke along the way. I'll also add that I've found it easier to cut those tough chin whiskers cleanly with a near-wedge type grind razor. I only have one of them and it seems to make a difference in the tough stuff, plows right through and doesn't require as aggressive a blade angle against the skin on the stubborn whiskers.

Getting a good lather becomes easier once you've developed the knack for it but was frustrating for me too at first. I found that I wasn't working the brush in the mug long enough in most cases when the lather was poor, and was too reluctant to add some more water when needed. I work the brush against the soap long enough to see plenty of the tiny bubbles to make sure I've picked up enough soap before working the lather up in a bowl or on the face.

To pass along some good advice I received here - don't try for mounds of fluffy lather because that will be too thin, you want something thicker and creamier that's just wet enough that it won't dry out on your face. Don't hesitate to dip the brush tips in hot water to remoisten lather on your face during the shave, or dribble some into the mixing bowl or into the back of the brush when working up the lather if it seems too dry. Once you've found the right water/soap/working time ratio for a particular soap or cream you'll be able to replicate it pretty well every time.

I found it easier to get good results with creams at first but others have said the opposite. You might want to try one if you don't have any yet.

Hope this helps
Dave

Assuming your prep and lather are good, it sounds like you may be trying to cut against the grain (or partly against the grain) when the whiskers are too long.

There's a tendency for the blade to hook up under long whiskers. Then, you try to apply more force and you lose control. Keeping the blade as sharp as possible minimizes the problem, but you can also try getting the whiskers as short as possible before you go against the grain. A fine stubble is best. Then you can actually reduce the pressure a lot, increase the angle of the blade (raise the spine) and very lightly and carefully cut into the grain.

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Originally Posted by ToxIk

here's a video that has a barbers demostration for straight shaving; start to finish. It doesn't go into great detail about the lather, but you might find it helpful.

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That's great!

X

Jeremy,

I'm relatively new to straight and DE shaving as well, but I have a couple of suggestions.

As far as lather goes, spend some time over on the Badger & Blade forum (www.badgerandblade.com). The guys over there know as much about lathering and prep as the guys here know about honing and stropping. (B&B focuses mainly on DE shaving, so the guys over there tend to obsess more over things like lathering.) There are some really great video and photo tutorials, including one that describes how to get a great lather from glycerine soap.

I have a similar problem with my razor getting stuck in my chin hair. I think the problem is that I haven't been stretching the skin enough on my chin. If I try to make faces, my chin tends to get a bunch of little dimples in it that make it impossible to shave. I have a cleft that's fairly deep, too.

What I discovered just today was that I could stretch the skin by biting my lower lip (gently, of course) and kind of pushing my jaw down and forward. It's hard to describe. But it flattens out the skin on my chin really well, and it tightens it nicely. Before I could see the hair pulling my skin out of place as I tried to shave.

It's a good idea to just sit in front of the mirror and make different faces and see how the skin reacts. You should be able to find a maneuver that gets the skin tight for you.

Or you could try using a damp washcloth to give you a little more grip, and pulling your skin tight with your free hand.

Hope some of this is helpful,
Josh

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Originally Posted by joshearl

As far as lather goes, spend some time over on the Badger & Blade forum (www.badgerandblade.com).

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I'm there too. I'm everywhere, and I have to say there's too much emphasis on lather for newbies. You need to concentrate on good prep and shaving technique. Worrying too much about lather will draw your attention away from what's important. I tell newbies to get a good canned lather and stick with it until your technique is good. Then learn how to make good lather. You'll enjoy the improvement.

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I have a similar problem with my razor getting stuck in my chin hair. I think the problem is that I haven't been stretching the skin enough on my chin.

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The most important purpose of stretching is to flatten the skin, but you don't have to pull hard to do it (you can even do it with face contortions).

The other purpose of stretching is to stand up the whiskers, and this could require some pulling. If your whiskers already grow upright you don't need this, but most of us have whiskers that tilt in one direction, which produces a very distinct directional grain. When you feel the roughness, you're pulling against the direction of the grain (lean). That's how you want to pull when you stretch. That will stand up the whiskers.

If you pull the other way you make things worse, because you're flattening the whiskers. When you shave with the grain the razor will skip, and when you go against the grain, the blade will hook under the whiskers and hang up. There'll be a strong pull, and shaving can be a problem.

If your razor is getting stuck, think about the direction you're pulling when you stretch. Unfortunately, when you're shaving against the grain the correct direction direction of pull puts your hand in the path of the blade.

The other possibility is that your whiskers are too long when you're cutting against the grain. Try cutting with the grain or across until you leave a fine stubble (don't try to cut to clean skin early, so you minimize irritation), then it'll be a lot easier to cut against the grain.

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Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

I tell newbies to get a good canned lather and stick with it until your technique is good. Then learn how to make good lather. You'll enjoy the improvement.

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Canned lather, Joe? I got my worst shaves ever with them! IMHO canned lather is just a lubricant, it hardly penetrates the whiskers so it does not soften them. It is colder as well as you do not use hot water to whip it.

My option: put hot water in you basin, wet the face with a soaked brush flicked dry gently, soak the brush again and gently flick it dry once or twice, put some shaving cream on it and spread it on the whiskers. If the lather produced is too dry dip the tip of the brush into the water once or twice and continue lathering your face. If the lather becomes to wet just add a bit of cream onto the brush and continue lathering. I don't think there's more magic too it than that.
With shaving soap it works more or less the same. You whip up a lather in your mug with a brush flicked dry after you wetted your face 1st.

I agree canned lather really stinks.. I wouldn't use it :td

Building a lather is an art all to itself. Given decent prep and good technique and most important a truely sharp edge shaving the chin shouldn't be a problem at all. If I can use a straight without cream at all I would think others could get by with canned cream (I've only used canned cream and a straight once, it was a great shave).

If the problem includes DE blades I'd say its either prep or technique. My only suggestions are to add lather, shave cheeks, then add lather again before trying the chin. Next get the angle and direction correct. Failing that, grow a goatee. :eek:

To me it sounds like the razor needs 10 swipes on 8k and some stropping.

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Originally Posted by Kees

Canned lather, Joe? I got my worst shaves ever with them! IMHO canned lather is just a lubricant, it hardly penetrates the whiskers so it does not soften them. It is colder as well as you do not use hot water to whip it.

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I'm not saying use it forever, I'm saying take lather making and the brush out of the picture until you learn to shave. You don't need the distraction.

There is some decent canned stuff out there. I used Noxema for many years and it was OK. In a pinch I'll even use some now. Or you can use some Palmolive brushless cream, whatever. The idea is to take lather and the brush out of the picture at first. Another thing to think about is that newbies often do more damage with a dry mix than they would using something canned. I'll agree it doesn't necessarily have to come out of a can, as long as it's ready to use. So, if you want to get fancyuse some Nancy Boy out of the jar. Just don't get involved in making lather and using a brush when you first start. Concentrate on the basics of shaving: prep and razor technique.

As for your worst shaves, did you get them using good prep and good razor technique? I doubt it. I've been wet shaving for nearly 50 years, and 90% of that time I used either canned stuff or drug store products (Palmolive, Surrey) or no brush. My shaves were a lot better then than when I first started to use a str8 and also used a Kent BK8 and fancy Taylors and Trumpers creams.

Joe, I once borrowed some canned stuff from a friend and vowed never to use it again! This was in the 80s of last century, it was in the US of A, its brand was unknown to me and has been erased from my biological hard disk.
If I remember well I followed the instructions on the can.

My honing and shaving technique at the time were worse than now. Also my skin was more sensitive at the time, even cartridge blades and DE's cause a lot of grazing to the skin of my neck at the time, I never had problems with my cheeks.
it took my skin at least 7 years to get used to wet shaving, I started shaving electrically.

From a newbie's perspective, I have to respectfully disagree with Joe on this one. Learning to make a better lather will help with shaving because it's more forgiving. When I started out I was having a lot of problems with lather drying on my face--it wasn't wet enough. Not knowing what lather should look like, I tried to shave a few times with dry lather. Yeeowch.

I've also tried to shave with lather that was too wet. Again, very painful.

You can definitely get too carried away with it, but having a good lather will give you more margin for error while you perfect your techique.

Some of the really experienced guys, possibly including Joe, can shave without any lather at all--only water. But I wouldn't want to try that yet.

Good luck,
Josh

[quote=joshearl]

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From a newbie's perspective, I have to respectfully disagree with Joe on this one. Learning to make a better lather will help with shaving because it's more forgiving. When I started out I was having a lot of problems with lather drying on my face--it wasn't wet enough. Not knowing what lather should look like, I tried to shave a few times with dry lather. Yeeowch.

I've also tried to shave with lather that was too wet. Again, very painful.

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This is just an example of what I was talking about. Here you were, punishing your face while trying to learn how to make lather. The chances are you were really doing a job on your face, because your prep and technique were not there yet. Ouch! And you delayed the day when your technique would be grooved.

Doing it my way, you would have been using a ready made lather preparation (use Palmolive brushless if you don't like canned foam), and you would have been learning prep and techniques with minimum abuse to your face.

Experienced shavers can shave with anything, because of good prep and technique. If you had that, the variation in lather quality would not have had such an extreme effect on your face.

also pretty new to the whole thing, but i'll back joe up on this one. honestly, i don't even use hot water to make the lather and i sure as hell don't use an 80 dollar brush.

as a matter of fact, i'll go even farther: i get great shaves with some pretty half-assed lathers. i was very religious about it at first, but, a couple of times, i forgot to soak the brush or the wet the soap before i went into the shower and had to do it all cold. what i found when this happened the first time, and each subsequent time, is that the shave didn't suffer at all.

since then, if i have time, i only apply soap properly before the first pass. before the second, i just wipe some on to lubricate (whatever's still on the brush), and finish with a third 'pass' of touch ups using no soap at all.

it just doesn't seem that important.

also, i've used the noxema stuff (i think that was the one), and it didn't seem all that different than the classic shaving soap, or the soap i bought from colleen. maybe i suck at working with soaps in general, but then i guess that just proves joe's point if i'm still getting great, pain-free shaves. i'd be surprised, though, if i were that incompetent; this isn't brain surgery, after all.