New to Straight Razors, What am i missing ?? Blade not sharp

About a month a go i purchased my first straight razor from a local store. I bought a dovo razor from the art of shaving store. Along with the razor i purchased a strop, and a kit that has the brush and oil and other items. When i purchased the blade the gentlemen took it out of the box and sliced a peice of paper. He said it was shave ready, he showed me how to use the strop and all the other items that i purchased. So when i got home i did as he told me but the razor doesnt cut, its not sharp enought, i read this happens all the time with new razors. So i read about hones and the norton 8000/ 4000 seamed to be what every one was using. I called a store they said they had in in stock, when i get there they didnt have it. But they had king water stones, so i purchased a 800/4000 water stone and a 1000/6000 water stone, and i went home and using the electrical tape i tried honing my blade. I didnt get good sesults, i followed some youtube videos and how to hone the blade. then i stropped it and it was the same. When i touch the blade it fleals sharp, but not sharp enough to cut any hair from my beard, so then i read about paste and i purchased green chromium oxide paste and also a 1/4 diamond paste from norton. I also purchased anothe strop to use with my paste. When i recieved the paste, i stropped like usual and nothing happened the blade is the same it doesnt pass the hair arm test. What am i missing, Im thinking a higher grade poloshing stone which would be the 8000 grit stone, or ive read some people using 10,000 and 12,000. IS THAT WHAT IM MISSING ?? Am I doing something Wrong ??

Thanks for Helping :)

List Of Things That i have.
Dovo Straight Razor
Dovo Leather Strop
Another strop for my paste
King Stone 800/4000 Grit
King Stone 1000/6000 Grit
.5 Green Chromium Oxide Paste
1/4 Norton Diamond Paste

Hi Carl,
Well you can be almost certain that new blade you got was not truly shave-ready, and even if it was that guy did you no favors by slicing a piece of paper with it. I know Dovo says they are shave-ready, but they just aren't. I purchased a Thiers-Issard from Art of Shaving and after trying it for several days, ended up following the advice on these forums and sent it off to be professionally honed, in my case by gssixgun, Glen, who has done several razors for me. Very fast service, I might add. It may not seem like it, but honing just isn't that easy. It takes practice. You really ought to blow the few bucks it will cost to send it off to get it honed or you'll just continue to be frustrated. Look in the Classifieds section and you'll see that several people here will hone a razor for your, for very reasonable cost. Seriously, it's your best bet. Good luck. You'll enjoy it soon enough.
Ed

No you're not doing anything wrong. You've just bitten off more at once than anyone can chew. I have plenty of knives that cut paper (we call that the HPT, hanging paper test), but I can't shave with them.

So I'd recommend sending off the razor to have it honed by someone, like the founder of this forum, who knows how and spend the time until it comes back reading the library here. That is the way to start.

I agree with Ed. You may continue to work at the honing in frustration, and may even arrive at a shave ready edge in about six months after you have needlessly worn the edge and spine down. But I highly recommend that you get it professionally honed first to feel what shave ready really means. Then when it is time to bring the edge back you will know to what you must aspire. You have a nice setup, and it will do the job, but you need a good baseline from which to proceed with success before you spend anymore time or money.

Hang in there. The reward is worth it.

Gammaray

Put your hands where we can see them, and step away from your wallet.

Now.


I may have missed something, but I'd wager I'm close to being right on this; Your blade either A) never had a (great) bevel set, and / or B) your stropping technique marred the edge up, with AND without CrOx, C) your honing technique never addressed the bevel issue, so you beat your head against the wall further with that, and now you think an 8K stones gonna makey makey all better?

Here's what you do; contact one of the lads in the classifieds here, or Larry at whippeddog.com, or Lynn at SRD. Say 4 words; Need shave ready razor. Either a new blade of get yours honed right. They will hook you up for a lot less than the cost of an 8k. NEXT: spend the next 6 weeks learning how to use the damn thing... and replace the strop your gonna trash. No stones, no paste, nada... just don't. You've got enough of a learning curve to worry about. Then.. go back to your original purchase, and you'll be able to judge the difference...and THEN see if you want to wrestle with honing.

And read the stickies here. Buncha smart guys thought those posts might help people. (SEE.. they already posted this stuff)


And have fun... another smart guy says that a lot.

Yeah the same advice from me, send it off to get it honed and if your serious about honing your own razor buy a cheap old one to practice on first or else you will probably ruin your razor, Just show that he shouldnt sell them. you can shave after 8000 so dont worry for now. first train before you try it on a new razor or train before thinking about buying a new higher grit stone. To start with look at the youtube vidz of some of the senior members in here like Lynn or gssixgun and there are plenty more ppl with videoesin here but be aware not all on youtube can hone or they give bad advice, talk to ppl in here to find the links that are good to learn from first. SRP/Lynn have a video you can buy. Hope you cleaned it for oil before testing the sharpness, cause if it has oil on it it usaly dont cut hair. You have more then enough to start to learn with, and also did you buy a flattening/lapping plate for your stones when buying them and did you lapp your stones before trying to hone? No Stone is Flat you have to make it flat first, and no Dovo razor is sharp so send it off to someone in the classifieds, its cheaper then buying the stones you want in the end. you can get up to 30.000Grit/30K on Shapton Pro Ceramic Stones, Or Shapton On Glass but they cost 1 arm and your unborn child and not even those stones are flat. you can buy naniwa lapping plate or norton lapping plate for your set, and that will work up to 12000 grit they say. and the lapping plate dont cost much exept if you buy Shapton DRLP/DGLP/Iron Cast Lapping Plate or DMT Lapping Plate ;) If you buy shapton or dmt lapping plate you can say from 180 dollars and up to around 600 dollars. but if you go for naniwa or norton its around 20-40 dollars. buy naniwa 220, norton or dmt 325 grit for your lapping cause even if you buy the 12000 grit stone later you can use this lapping plate to lapp that stone aswell when you get there after alot of practice on the old razor. Cheaper to let someone else fix it for you then buying tons of expensive stones you cant use. Best way is to get yourself a mentor that has the time. cause without guiding it will take forever to learn it.

You need a sharper razor the dovo is fine but unless you take the time to study and watch lots of videos and practice you will have a hard time getting it shave ready. send it to one of the many honemiesters there are a couple of good ones in texas if you want to try and keep in nearby, do an advanced search in the community section for users in either texas of TX sort the list by last log ons and that will give you some people to try ... some might even be in your area and willing for a face to face discussion. or simply send it to one the the guys in the member services section of the classifieds

You really mean to tell me that you read all of that advice in the OP, but never once saw the "Get it professionally honed" advice? Your first thing is, is it your shaving technique, your stropping technique or your honing technique? Getting it honed by someone who knows will tell you first shave for the first part, second shave for the second part and a couple months later for the 3rd part.

for the record, you should be able to actually shave off the 1K stone. if you cant shave off it, odds are the 120K super expensive stone or the single diamond crystal spray wont help you any.

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Originally Posted by LameBMX

You really mean to tell me that you read all of that advice in the OP, but never once saw the "Get it professionally honed" advice? Your first thing is, is it your shaving technique, your stropping technique or your honing technique? Getting it honed by someone who knows will tell you first shave for the first part, second shave for the second part and a couple months later for the 3rd part.

for the record, you should be able to actually shave off the 1K stone. if you cant shave off it, odds are the 120K super expensive stone or the single diamond crystal spray wont help you any.

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Yeah I read that its better to get it professionally honed lol, But I just always want to learn and do it my self, But with everyone stating the same thing i think i may just send it off, and go from there. Thanks for all of the answers.

I will echo the posters here...get it professionally honed. Then learn the proper stropping technique. I've read here that many folks feel that you almost can't over-strop BUT...you CAN round the edge so watch any video you can watch. THEN look into getting into honing your razors. I have honed some of monie mine BUT...to judge how I've progressed along MY learning curve I'll STILL send my Dovo and Boker to a professional, be it Lynn or one of the folks on the site. So far I've only had the Dovo honed by Lynn but at some point the Boker will need it and I have a few that I can't conquer so those will definitely go to one of the pros. The Dovo andf Boker will go tothe pros...I'm not gonna ruin them. If you ARE intent on learning to hone your razor, get a cheapie straight razor off Fleabay for the practice. The Norton hones probably need to be lapped too and the set includes a lap stone. Above all else, read this forum as often as you can do so...there are ALOT of folks here with volumes of knowledge. Happy shaves. RIch.

never mind all these guys. send me $1400 and i will send you a great practice razor, with a magic stone, and world class piece of leather. Instructions included :deal:

OR realize you are taking on too much at a time. Making a razor sharp is a skill which will take practice so is making lather, stropping, shaving, and most everything else concerned. The skill building is a large part of the pleasure. Read the wiki's and the stickies and the beginners stuff. Send the razor out to be fixed. Take a step at a time or at least not more than two. Welcome aboard enjoy the ride everyone here likes to share.:rock::beer1:

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Originally Posted by carl16732

Yeah I read that its better to get it professionally honed lol, But I just always want to learn and do it my self, But with everyone stating the same thing i think i may just send it off, and go from there. Thanks for all of the answers.

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No problem playing with honing, just do it to a 2nd razor.

Really need the first to learn the shaving aspect, send it off a second time after a few months of shaving and its ready for the next hone. When you get it back, you will have the control for you honing learning. You have a known good edge used while knowing the basics of shaving to compare your edges too. You will also pretty much eliminate shaving and stropping techniques for the honing equation also.

carl16732

Two advices-and I`m also beginner so it think some of master will agree or doom me :-)

First-make sure that you properly set bevel if bevel need to be st. If you think bevel was set just check it.
Second-I found very important to work long enough on 4k stone before moving to any higher grits. I missed this on the beginning and shaving was just BAD...

Best luck!

+1 for the recommendations to send your razor to someone who advertises honing services in the SRP Classified section. You have enough on your plate just learning to shave.

It's clear to me that the AOS salesman you bought your Dovo from knows nothing about the straight razors he is selling. They aren't knives you use for whittling sticks. I've never tried this myself and I don't recommend anyone else try this with a prized razor, but it's my understanding that were you to take a razor that was honed shave ready sharp and gave you a comfortable shave, then used it to slice a piece of paper, it would no longer give you the same comfortable shave until the edge was touched up.

I went to the AOS store one time because I wanted to try their shaving cream. I noticed the straights they had for sale and asked the salesman what brands of hones they carried? His face took on a doe-in-the-headlights expression. I then asked him who he recommended his customers send their straight razors to when they needed honing? He again did his impression of a deer about to be jacked. No surprise, given that Gillette owns AOS.

Should you ever be moved to purchase another new straight razor, might I suggest you purchase it from a vendor like Straight Razor Designs? Every razor they sell is honed shave ready sharp for you at no extra cost. You're guaranteed to get a good, comfortable shave (once you've developed your technique, that is).
Namaste,
Morty -_-

Folks, cutting a piece of writing paper or similar won't likely harm an edge. At least not in a way that couldn't be fixed by stropping it. Think about it - whiskers are far tougher than paper and one can shave for months without needing to touch up a razor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carl16732

Yeah I read that its better to get it professionally honed lol, But I just always want to learn and do it my self, But with everyone stating the same thing i think i may just send it off, and go from there. Thanks for all of the answers.

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Send it off to be honed. And while you wait, get a practice razor from an antique store and learn honing on that. This way you will also have a standard known shave ready edge for comparing your edges to when yours comes back.

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Originally Posted by JeffR

Folks, cutting a piece of writing paper or similar won't likely harm an edge. At least not in a way that couldn't be fixed by stropping it. Think about it - whiskers are far tougher than paper and one can shave for months without needing to touch up a razor.

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you wiskers are also cut at a controlled angle, who know how the paper tried to flap around and or pull on the edge. there is a bit of lateral force on a blade during those cuts, especially if the cutter is good and consistent with them. im not saying its a guarantee to mess up a blade, just that i can see the possibility.

Well it seems logically the next step would be to cut up some printer paper and shave test the edge. I have done it already. Razors aren't for cutting paper. Try it.

I just have to say cutting paper, EVEN if it's not going to harm the edge, proves nothing, surely? Has anyone heard, on this fine forum, of the paper cutting test (PCT)?

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I just have to say cutting paper, EVEN if it's not going to harm the edge, proves nothing, surely? Has anyone heard, on this fine forum, of the paper cutting test (PCT)?

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no but if you want i'm sure we could work up some test parameters and evaluation standards. it cannot be and more useless of that test than the hht. :)

In my opinion, I would have asked for another razor after that salesman cut the paper. Take Ace's advice, get it professionally honed and get used to using a properly honed razor before trying to learn how to hone it. Take it one step at a time. Also, when I touch up my razors's edge, nothing comes in contact with that edge except the skin on my face.

Other members in this forum may disagree with me, that's fine, but from my point of view, a straight razor's edge is more delicate than people realize.

You have gotten all the advice you need so far and it looks like you get the point.

Only thing that I might add is to see if there is a fellow srp member in your area that is willing to meetup. An hour with a mentor from here is worth about 100 hours of you tube video and frustration. You can get your razor honed learn a few things and have him look at your stropping. If the AOS sales person was willing to cut paper as his sales pitch I was willing to be they do not use a straight razor so their stropping instruction may have been as helpful as the paper test.

Good luck and welcome to SRP. It really is not that hard, just a lot to take in at once.

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Originally Posted by jaswarb

Well it seems logically the next step would be to cut up some printer paper and shave test the edge. I have done it already. Razors aren't for cutting paper. Try it.

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Respectfully, that's a fair suggestion. After cutting this 20# printer paper this morning, my razor shaved great - without even stropping:

Attachment 95801

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JeffR

Folks, cutting a piece of writing paper or similar won't likely harm an edge. At least not in a way that couldn't be fixed by stropping it. Think about it - whiskers are far tougher than paper and one can shave for months without needing to touch up a razor.

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Think about how many hairs you would have to line up to equal the width of that paper. He probably put a months worth of wear on the edge with that one slice.

Carl,
since you are near dallas i would suggest contacting larry at whippeddog ... you might even be able to get some pointers in person that would definitely speed your progress.

jim

Well stated Morty. Excellent post!

I got my first SR from SRD and got great start. However, I did botch my edge stropping, but that was part of the learning curve. Lynn Abrams gave me some advice, heeded and stuck to it and I have added razors to my line up and I consistently get great shaves.

On another note, interesting that Gillette owns AOS; wow, I never would have guessed.

We alll different lessons and share them. I personally hope that other newbies reading this thread learn from it. Use the razor on the face and nothing else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Morty

+1 for the recommendations to send your razor to someone who advertises honing services in the SRP Classified section. You have enough on your plate just learning to shave.

It's clear to me that the AOS salesman you bought your Dovo from knows nothing about the straight razors he is selling. They aren't knives you use for whittling sticks. I've never tried this myself and I don't recommend anyone else try this with a prized razor, but it's my understanding that were you to take a razor that was honed shave ready sharp and gave you a comfortable shave, then used it to slice a piece of paper, it would no longer give you the same comfortable shave until the edge was touched up.

I went to the AOS store one time because I wanted to try their shaving cream. I noticed the straights they had for sale and asked the salesman what brands of hones they carried? His face took on a doe-in-the-headlights expression. I then asked him who he recommended his customers send their straight razors to when they needed honing? He again did his impression of a deer about to be jacked. No surprise, given that Gillette owns AOS.

Should you ever be moved to purchase another new straight razor, might I suggest you purchase it from a vendor like Straight Razor Designs? Every razor they sell is honed shave ready sharp for you at no extra cost. You're guaranteed to get a good, comfortable shave (once you've developed your technique, that is).
Namaste,
Morty -_-

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Originally Posted by JeffR

Respectfully, that's a fair suggestion. After cutting this 20# printer paper this morning, my razor shaved great - without even stropping:

Attachment 95801

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No disrespect taken I like differing opinions as their resolution is for me the best teacher.
Well this isn't one of those issues I would believed YMMV. I have done the paper trick as well and the edge was not kind to my face. I have very abrasion sensitive skin. Edge smoothness is a very big factor for comfort when I shave. Now it looks as though with such divergent results we need a double blind study.

I am curious as to the method you chose to cut the paper. Since the slice is so long and straight may I correctly assume you cut it on the backer board in the photo while guilding it with a straight edge?

Is it me or is this thread drifting out to sea?

Jaswarb,

I agree with you, this paper-cutting exercise is very subjective and not something to recommend people do. Especially razor salesman.

You know, that surprised me; I cut that printer paper by holding it up in my left hand and cutting it from the top downward in one smooth stroke on the first and only try. I'm not sure that I could repeat that! :)


carl16732,
My apologies for diverting this thread. The suggestions given by the other guys to meet with an experienced straight razor shaver and to have your razor professionally honed are good ones. They no doubt earnestly want you to have success and enjoyment with wet shaving.

Sincerely,
Jeff

Doesn't copy paper contain minerals like calcium carbonate and titanium dioxide to make it look whiter? SMI: Why are Minerals Used in Paper?

On honing, have you tried putting black marker on the edge of the blade (carefully from the side)?

:banghead::banghead:

greetings,

i am new to this club...have used the straigt-edge from feb of 2011. i have a se dovo inox; also, i have a strop but i tell you, i have gotTen to one of the points of your comment: I HAVE LOST THE !EDGE! OF MY LITTLE DARLING. it just doesn't cut like it used to cut and therefore i have been relegated back to using a cheap triple edge safety razor and i dont think i have to tell you how much, after shaving with a straight-edge, i am impressed with the cut. the strop kept the edge for awhile but because of inexperience i couldnt maintain the precision edge needed to avoid defacing the skin getting shaving bumps and in-grown hairs. i am in the caribbean but i wanted to know if you know of anyone of reputable character that can bring the edge back to little missy? i want to eventually become proficient at honing a blade but i am willing to start by paying a professional to do it. will probably buy a new blade, honing stone, strop and work on restoring the edge of the blade i already have.
Can anyone guide me along these lines?

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Originally Posted by JeffR

Folks, cutting a piece of writing paper or similar won't likely harm an edge. At least not in a way that couldn't be fixed by stropping it. Think about it - whiskers are far tougher than paper and one can shave for months without needing to touch up a razor.

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Hi Jeff,
I certainly don't want to be giving out bad advice to other members, so help me out please. In the wiki, under "Sharpness tests explained," in talking about the TNT - Thumb Nail Test, it states:

#####
Finer points

1. This test will damage the shaving edge so it should only be done on an edge that you intend to keep honing on the 4000 level hones. Its primary purpose is to determine whether the bevel is set properly.
2. This test is sometimes seen as the least useful of the tests in this article as it is the most dangerous to the shaving edge and the results are also the most vague to interpret.
#####

A couple of things come to mind. First, it's obvious we aren't cutting *through* our thumbnail when performing a TNT, we're just gently drawing the edge -- that has not yet progressed past a 4000 hone -- across the surface of our thumbnail just to get an idea as to whether the bevel is set yet or not. Folks who know honing better than me state that "This test will damage the shaving edge" and "is the most dangerous to the shaving edge" that is not yet shave ready sharp. So how is it that taking a shave ready sharp razor -- whose edge is much finer and more fragile -- and using it to cut through a sheet of paper *won't* damage the edge?

The other thought that pops up is that most of us go through an extensive pre-shave ritual to soften and moisten our beards that includes shave oil and lather to keep our beard and skin lubricated, moist and cushioned. Yet the edge still needs to be stropped before the next shave.

So is slicing through a dry sheet of paper with a shave ready sharp razor like shaving a properly prepped beard? Or is it more like performing a *very* aggressive TNT with a much more fragile, easily damaged edge?

Please don't misunderstand me; I'm not arguing with you. I don't care about being "right." My concern is that a new member reading your post might get his freshly honed razor back from a honemeister, slice through a couple of sheets of paper to "test" it, not get the shave he was expecting, and complain in a thread that so-and-so did a lousy job honing his razor. How does that help him?

Your thoughts, please?

On honing, have you tried putting black marker on the edge of the blade (carefully from the side)?[/QUOTE]

No I haven't used a black marker on the blade. Is this done to see how much of the blade I have taken off by honing ?

Yes.

In my opinion, the worst enemy when someone begins is sharpening without looking.
Grab that magic marker and mark the edge of the blade.

Do 2 light strokes on your 1000, then look. Do 2 more strokes and look again.
Is the marker being removed evenly? Are there very thin line of black at the very edge of the blade?
Always observe the blade to see if the edge is getting sharper, then adjust.

First don't try to sharpen a razor untill you look at the video made buy our founder...Lynn Abrams.
It is avaliable for sale in the vendors section and is invaluable to a beginner. The video is also on youtube and others as well.
Nortons are a good start but you will want to progress from there to more sophisticated stones.

I have been sharpening and restoring for going on two years but still get stumped.

I have also sent off some razors to be sharpened by Lynn and use them for a benchmark.

It is a learning game and you will get it but it takes time.

Email me with your name and address and I will send a couple to practice on If you like.
blowout123@juno.com

Will also send a norton laping plate for you to flatten your stones on. This is a must. Later on you can buy a diamond laping plate to do this but hold off till you learn a little more.

THis is not a catch...I am not trying to sell you something...just trying to save you a lit of heartaches and money.

Stingray

Pointless to discuss whether slicing paper will damage the edge. The test is useless for razors. It's not hard to push cut paper. A shave ready razor has to be much sharper.

Also pointless to take any advice on razors, stropping, or honing from anyone at AOS. At least not the one I have been to. It's a nice shop but not a source for knowledge.

Send the razor out for honing as recommended. A higher grit hone isn't what you need right no, first you need to master the basics.

Michael

I do not mean to be contrarian, but I would play around with light honing before you send it in.
I say this with some reservation, because ultimately you will be responsible for what happens to your DOVO.

Everyone comes from different perspective, but I for one value the ability to hone over a price of a razor.
You can always (and probably should) send it in to be professionally honed after you are done with some level of experimenting.
This way you can gain some valuable experience and also have a sharp razor at the end of the day.
If you send it in right away, you might be much more hesitant to do any kind of serious honing afterwards for fear of ruining it.

All of this, of course, is null if you get a practice razor offered by stingray.

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Originally Posted by stingray

First don't try to sharpen a razor untill you look at the video made buy our founder...Lynn Abrams.
It is avaliable for sale in the vendors section and is invaluable to a beginner. The video is also on youtube and others as well.
Nortons are a good start but you will want to progress from there to more sophisticated stones.

I have been sharpening and restoring for going on two years but still get stumped.

I have also sent off some razors to be sharpened by Lynn and use them for a benchmark.

It is a learning game and you will get it but it takes time.

Email me with your name and address and I will send a couple to practice on If you like.
blowout123@juno.com

Will also send a norton laping plate for you to flatten your stones on. This is a must. Later on you can buy a diamond laping plate to do this but hold off till you learn a little more.

THis is not a catch...I am not trying to sell you something...just trying to save you a lit of heartaches and money.

Stingray

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Email sent.

Now see, you are already way ahead of me; a magic marker, my goodness! I think I am going to ship my DOVO to the chief honemeister and look into getting a few blades, stone, and strop to play on.
Sounds interesting (marker technique) and worth doing. I will mark your name so I can remember you when it comes to the practice of this technique!

Gotta be smooth!

it is all good. I am working on getting new tools (honing stone, new strop, and used blade[s]) so i can start practicing but in the meantime i am going to send my blade to the chief honemeister for a hone/restoration; i gotta be smooth....know what i mean!

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Originally Posted by syslight

no but if you want i'm sure we could work up some test parameters and evaluation standards. it cannot be and more useless of that test than the hht. :)

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Oh it can be, I have cut paper with known dull knives & nice clean paper cuts with swords that wont shave. Plus you will have noobs complaining about the styptic stinging all the paper cuts they got in the process.