Beginners Tips: May 2012

Attachment 97164

Well gents time to actually write something again after skating by last month with a review :) as many know I write these Tips each month after reading most all the posts and search for trends...


Variables:

Often times we forget just how many things have to happen for a great shave to occur, I was personally/painfully reminded of how two variables at the same time can confuse things up..

At the Yakima meet I got to mess around with two "new to me" honing stones, a unknown origin 3-5k followed by a German Faso water stone that may or may not be a Thuringen..
We got some pretty good edges that were shaved that day with great results so before the end of the meet I touched up my personal Wacker on the two stones and headed home with that razor and a plethora of new soap samples...

Well last Friday I had a chance to do a bit of testing, I took out one of the samples admittedly the Artisan's first attempt at a shaving soap, and worked up a lather... I knew the lather was lacking but I pressed on, (mistake #1) I took out the Wacker with an edge that I had never tried before (mistake #2) after letting the lather sit while I stropped in the Wacker I did my normal hot towel and re-lather then started shaving...

:dropjaw:

Did I stop??? nope like an idiot I kept going and was rewarded with a terrible shave, weepers, nicks, razor burn... So here is the the problem, because I had too many unknowns, I could not be sure what caused the bad shave, and I unlike many newbs to this hobby, can eliminate the actual shaving part of the equation, after 30+ years of this, I know how to handle a razor, and I know my face :p ... I also know how to hone a razor, and strop a razor, so I eliminated those too

Now yesterday morning I went back at this with a proved lather, as that was my first suspect, and was rewarded with a close comfortable shave...

Now imagine a new guy who has to add in all the other variables that I eliminated because of experience, and there is no wonder why we tell people to take things slow and steady and work through each problem...


Another variable that is little discussed, other than these two numbers 20° and 30°

The angle of attack when presenting the razor to the skin

I have never really been that comfortable with those two numbers myself, and when pressed I usually say two spine widths as this at least gets the new guys to realize that it will differ a bit with each razor.
It is actually more complicated, or looked at another way, much simpler, depending on the size and grind of the razor that angle will vary quite a bit, so to think of it as an actual angle might not be the easiest way to describe it to newbs..
The old razor inserts have given me the best idea for it, they say "Place the razor flat against the cheek and begin to move the razor, as you move the spine away from the face, when the razor begins to cut smoothly that is the proper angle" This sounds much harder then it actually is in practice.
This is pretty much exactly what experienced shavers do every day by feel :)
We start the stroke and we adjust the angle to cut the smoothest by feel, I know this is hard when first starting out, but this is why the advice is to start with the flat side of the cheeks first, so you can learn the feel of the razor and how it cuts...
The more time you take learning how the razor handles, and how each stroke cuts, and then cuts more efficiently, the better your shaves will be...


As always with these posts I encourage the Senior Members to add to this thread, as we often have different points of view and they could help someone out with our Hobby...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Attachment 97164


Did I stop??? nope like an idiot I kept going and was rewarded with a terrible shave, weepers, nicks, razor burn... So here is the the problem, because I had too many unknowns, I could not be sure what caused the bad shave, and I unlike many newbs to this hobby, can eliminate the actual shaving part of the equation, after 30+ years of this, I know how to handle a razor, and I know my face :p ... I also know how to hone a razor, and strop a razor, so I eliminated those too

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This is the best explanation to us as beginner's for going slow.

Get a truly shave ready razor, learn to strop, carefully prep, and mow away one area at a time continuing only as far as it goes smoothly.

Adding the fewest variables as possible each shave until things start smoothing out is the biggest factor leading to success since the very act of swinging the blade is a variable which only time on the line can resolve.If someone with
30+ plus years and countless variables and problems solved over those years can have a bad shave, no one beginning need get discouraged if the first 25 attempts just bring more questions than answers.:beer1:

Very good point Glen, bad lather can make a killer edge feel terrible, I have experienced that quite a few times. :)

Wow, Glen, well put sir! I have to thank you again for your many contributions to this site. I know it has helped me immensely and I'm sure not alone in this!

I especially liked the succinct way you described getting the right angle.
Thanks again,
Joe

Thanks for the insight, Glen.
It verbalises just what I have been doing since I started to get reasonable edges from my honing.
I always test my edges on MWF soap so that there is one less variable and a known blade when trying a new soap.
Thanks again.

I thought I warned you about that soap...

Thanks for the thoughtful elaboration on angles and the importance of a semi-scientific method to starting out. As a beginner--well, a couple months in but still learning--I find it sometimes tempting to start throwing in new variables but have to take some wind out of the sails and remember that controlling variables to the point of being able to understand them is key before moving to the next variable.

For me, I've been focusing on stropping which ultimately shortens my work on my face in that I don't have time to make more than two WTG passes. I would like to start practicing more XTG and dabble with ATG, but I'm not comfortable saying, "Yes I know what a well-stropped blade and a poorly stropped blade feels like." Because I don't have a stable understanding of the difference yet, I find adding new variables like ATG techniques will only muddle things and set me back, so I spend more time experimenting with stropping technique right now.

Speaking of stropping for fellow beginners, and off topic a bit and already a known opinion but worthwhile I think, find yourselves a cheap strop when first starting--Whipped Dog sells one for $14. I never understood how a person could nick the leather if the blade trails the spine, but I have since nicked the end of the strop a hand full of times at the end where my hand holds it. It occurs when flopping over the blade too early before stopping the toward-me motion, and all it takes is the slightest movement of the blade in the wrong direction during this transition to dig in. I've since put much work into making sure the spine is leading before settling the edge. Because it's a cheap strop, I shrug it off as a learning process, but I'd feel much different if it were a $80 strop. Like this latest tips thread argues well, promoting slow, controlled experimenting with variables pays off, so thanks for the reinforcement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Annixter

Thanks for the thoughtful elaboration on angles and the importance of a semi-scientific method to starting out. As a beginner--well, a couple months in but still learning--I find it sometimes tempting to start throwing in new variables but have to take some wind out of the sails and remember that controlling variables to the point of being able to understand them is key before moving to the next variable.

For me, I've been focusing on stropping which ultimately shortens my work on my face in that I don't have time to make more than two WTG passes. I would like to start practicing more XTG and dabble with ATG, but I'm not comfortable saying, "Yes I know what a well-stropped blade and a poorly stropped blade feels like." Because I don't have a stable understanding of the difference yet, I find adding new variables like ATG techniques will only muddle things and set me back, so I spend more time experimenting with stropping technique right now.

Speaking of stropping for fellow beginners, and off topic a bit and already a known opinion but worthwhile I think, find yourselves a cheap strop when first starting--Whipped Dog sells one for $14. I never understood how a person could nick the leather if the blade trails the spine, but I have since nicked the end of the strop a hand full of times at the end where my hand holds it. It occurs when flopping over the blade too early before stopping the toward-me motion, and all it takes is the slightest movement of the blade in the wrong direction during this transition to dig in. I've since put much work into making sure the spine is leading before settling the edge. Because it's a cheap strop, I shrug it off as a learning process, but I'd feel much different if it were a $80 strop. Like this latest tips thread argues well, promoting slow, controlled experimenting with variables pays off, so thanks for the reinforcement.

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Annixter

I have been wondering how the strops get nicked. Now I know why and can try to avoid when I finally get started

Thanks

I agree.

It's tempting to rotate razors, brushes, lathers, etc frequenty. With every shave you can have a new combination. IMO this leads to frustration.

I change my stuff infrequently. It doesn't make An exciting sotd, but when something works I know which variable is responsible

Michael

While I agree that minimising the variables is a good thing to do, I'd suggest that another thing to take away from Glen's post is that no matter how much experience we attain at this, we all learn new things all the time. I know I learn best from my mistakes than my successes.

And just one other comment I'd like to make: shaving is a compound exercise - it is the subtle interaction of many things working together in harmony to produce a result that, IMO, is greater than the sum of its parts. And so while I would heartily stand by Glen's (and others) admonishment to eliminate variables, I would (perhaps rather contradictorily) also encourage the conscientious practicing of "putting it all together" as well. There is a time and place for practicing the parts, but there is also a time and place for putting them together - I think the two approaches feedback to each other, much as a Pianist might practice a scale which then improves the performance of a piece of music, which in turn improves their scale and so on over time.

James.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

There is a time and place for practicing the parts, but there is also a time and place for putting them together - I think the two approaches feedback to each other, much as a Pianist might practice a scale which then improves the performance of a piece of music, which in turn improves their scale and so on over time.

James.

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Oooooo That was very well put my brother from Down Unda :tu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

While I agree that minimising the variables is a good thing to do, I'd suggest that another thing to take away from Glen's post is that no matter how much experience we attain at this, we all learn new things all the time. I know I learn best from my mistakes than my successes.

And just one other comment I'd like to make: shaving is a compound exercise - it is the subtle interaction of many things working together in harmony to produce a result that, IMO, is greater than the sum of its parts. And so while I would heartily stand by Glen's (and others) admonishment to eliminate variables, I would (perhaps rather contradictorily) also encourage the conscientious practicing of "putting it all together" as well. There is a time and place for practicing the parts, but there is also a time and place for putting them together - I think the two approaches feedback to each other, much as a Pianist might practice a scale which then improves the performance of a piece of music, which in turn improves their scale and so on over time.

James.

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I'm with you as long as they aren't trying to play Rach 3 before they know how to properly play a scale :)

r.

*edit* sorry...I just replied to this on my phone and missed that this was left open for senior people to add on to...I'm not senior by any means...I'm chopsticks.

This is such a good one glen, it took me so long to figure this out. For a few months I didn't think I could shave with a full hollow, but I kept thinking 30 degrees, When i got more confident and started adjusting my blade angle I found I simply needed to bring the spine in to make it smooth and not harsh. I needed the confidence to eliminate the other variables before really figuring out the problem.

A big thank you to Glen for mentioning using two spine widths as a starting point for correct angle of attack and varying from there. As a struggling newbie I had a much better shave this morning following that advice. By decreasing my blade angle I got a much smoother shave, less hacking and pulling. Makes sense when you come to think of it, to slice rather scrape the whiskers off.

Bob

When Glen and I discussed this topic, I thought it was really a good one and not just for beginners.

It is amazing to me the subtle differences each razor presents when trying to shave with them. It really is not just a matter of minimizing the variables, but it is just as important to recognize them. When using a disposable razor with thinner machined blades, you can get away with a little more open angle that you can't in most instances from real straight razors. Add to that the different stock thicknesses, widths of blade, the amount of wear, length of scales, how much space there is between the end of the scales there is for you to grip and even the angle that some of the razors are pinned into the scales with and you really have a lot to pay attention to. Even the length of the blades can sometimes come into play.

The most important thing for me, is to think Vertical with the blade when shaving. Even when you have been shaving as long as some of us have, it is very common to bend the wrist back when shaving different parts of the face particularly with a 6/8 or larger blade which can create pulling, scrapping, nicks and in general an uncomfortable shave regardless of how well the razor is honed. A scale that is pinned with the angle just a little off can throw your normal grip off and you have to compensate.

I would always recommend that when you are using a new razor or even one you haven't used in a while that you start out just the same as if you were brand new to shaving. Sideburn to jaw on one side of the face and short little strokes with longer clean up strokes until you get the feel for the blade and then move on.

Practice gives us the confidence to obtain a great shave with straight razors. Preparation and all the other factors that we learn to make this art so pleasurable all come into play daily and after a while, it is easy to get complacent. What we enjoy the most about shaving with a straight razor is that we are not in any race and we can take the little bit of extra time to get the most out of it. Taking the time to examine what might be different from your usual razor when using a different one will help you a lot.

Have fun.

Great tips, fellas!

If I may beg you all's indulgence, here are some of my thoughts regarding blade angle:

What helps me is to think of blade angle as a "closeness control." What I mean is, a lower angle, with the blade closer to laying flat on the skin will not cut whiskers as closely, but has the advantage of being much less likely to cause nicks or razor burn. The higher the angle, the closer the shave but at an increased risk of nicks or irritation.

It seems to me that the important angle is that with respect to the whiskers, not necessarily the skin. Shaving with the direction of growth will allow for a higher angle than going against.

I find that the feel of drag and the sound the razor makes when shaving are also useful clues to finding a good shaving angle.

I have come to believe that the most important thing to keep in mind is to use minimal pressure, striving to glide the edge just above the surface of the skin. Doing that, almost any reasonable blade angle can be used to good effect.

A strong second to the post above, RE minimal pressure. I type this out so much it makes me miss signature files: with a properly sharp blade, you don't need any more pressure to remove whiskers than you need to scrape away lather. Just aim to scrape away lather and you'll have nice, comfortable shaves... as long as your blade's in good shape. If you aim to cut whiskers you're on the path to razor burn.

About angle... from reading on this site I learned to vary the angle a little bit depending on where I'm shaving. Yes, nearly flat to begin, on the easy planes where the hairs are also a little easier to cut (sideburn to jaw). When I get to where my own barbs are sturdier, like on and under the chin, I find a higher angle gives the blade a better bite at the hair bases, so it's less likely to just slide over them without cutting. All my ATG passes, when I take the trouble for them, are at very low blade angle. That minimizes the chance that a hair, instead of being sliced, will guide the edge down into my skin. The other way to minimize that chance is to keep the blade properly sharp. When your blade gets a little too dull is when it will also start cutting your skin instead of your barbs.

Many thanks to Glen and Lynn for their great distillations of wisdom.

This is exactly why I waited a while to start using a straight razor. FOr the last 6 months I started out with a DE, and during that time experimented with a lot of different brushes, creams, soaps, etc, until I found what works for me. Now that I have those variables out of the way, I do not have to think about them anymore, so I just ordered my first straight razor. No other variables, just concentrating on how to use it/technique and experience. No messing with creams, brushes, learning how to lather, etc.

Glen-

Thank you so much for the post. I have yet to get my first straight (I need to understand more), but when I reflect and ask myself why I want a straight razor, what you described resonates with me personally as a motivator. Let me reiterate some of your points and how they resonate with a beginner to wet shaving.

1. No matter how much time and experience we have, we still must respect the process and discipline. The razor does not show preference to experience, color, race, gender, politics, money, friends, education etc..., the razor only does what the hand tells it too. It’s pure in all aspects to life. The shaver is in complete command of his/her inputs to the process and if the process fails, there is only one person to be held accountable – the shaver. We must learn to succeed.
2. Use all previous knowledge and skill to be better. There is no “reset button” or change in trend or technique. The straight will always be the straight regardless of style, brand, or material. Again, the shaver is responsible for the tool and how to apply it. We can apply it negligently, or we can apply it with respect. There is only one person responsible for these choices, the shaver.
3. The intellectual mixing of variables. For us statistics fans (lol), if we try and model straight razor shave we have to have an output variable (closeness of shave or shave with no nicks), and what are the inputs variables are to achieve that? Pre shave prep, brand of cream or soap, quality of lather, # of strops before applying razor, time of day, # of passes, # of overall stokes, hours since last shave…I think we get the point, there are factors that will always impact the quality of the shave, and again, it all falls back to the shaver to understand what the heck they are doing.
• This is a special community, I have read a lot of posts, and what I explained here is in all of us. I am not sure a person would enjoy shaving with a straight if they are not thinkers or know how to correct on a consistent basis.

4. As much as I want for the world to eliminate cartridge razors, using a straight razor isn’t for everybody. Some people have a hard time respecting the essence of a process, and to neglect the process is not acceptable in straights. DE razors should be the standard for all, but the straight is a different game, different animal. The straight commands respect, patience, time, energy and resources, etc... If the shaver is unable to execute the process, the DE is always there.

I am intrigued with pureness that the shaver dictates his/her experience and the process they apply. The challenge to learn from mistakes, how to apply those mistakes to achieve the perfect shave in ones own mind. I don’t want to take short cuts (not pun) on this process. The straight razor has value to be better in life if we choose to think about it on a deeper level than just the shave.

Great Post.

@Ghost

Well written I really hope to meet up with you in person at the Denver Meetup this year, where we can talk more over a beer or coffee :beer1:

Great information gentlemen. I have been straight razor shaving for going on two years, hardly a veteran, not quite a newb. This thread has helped clarify the whole process in my pea sized brain.

In reality the described process (eliminating variables, starting with the basics, etc. ) applies to so many problems in life.

If you have ever had the experience of watching a professional football team practice it is surprising to most how much time they spend every day on fundamentals. You would think that at the pro level they would not be doing that anymore. The fact is that a big part of there practice is spent focusing on the basics, first step, pursuit angles, hand position etc. etc. etc.

In a way shaving with a straight is the same. Until you are sound fundamentally the rest is a hit or miss proposition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ghostrider5557

Glen-

Thank you so much for the post. I have yet to get my first straight (I need to understand more), but when I reflect and ask myself why I want a straight razor, what you described resonates with me personally as a motivator. Let me reiterate some of your points and how they resonate with a beginner to wet shaving.

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ghostrider--

I'm with Glen, that was a great post. Your post count suggests that you're fairly new, so Welcome!

The thread for this year's Denver meetup is here. Hope you can join us! Chime in with which weekend works best for you.

Well put good sir ! Same applies for stropping - took me a while to get that right ! When I did , it made a world of difference - combined with what you mentioned as well !

Thanks for a great post .

Cheers,

Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Attachment 97164

Well gents time to actually write something again after skating by last month with a review :) as many know I write these Tips each month after reading most all the posts and search for trends...


Variables:

Often times we forget just how many things have to happen for a great shave to occur, I was personally/painfully reminded of how two variables at the same time can confuse things up..

At the Yakima meet I got to mess around with two "new to me" honing stones, a unknown origin 3-5k followed by a German Faso water stone that may or may not be a Thuringen..
We got some pretty good edges that were shaved that day with great results so before the end of the meet I touched up my personal Wacker on the two stones and headed home with that razor and a plethora of new soap samples...

Well last Friday I had a chance to do a bit of testing, I took out one of the samples admittedly the Artisan's first attempt at a shaving soap, and worked up a lather... I knew the lather was lacking but I pressed on, (mistake #1) I took out the Wacker with an edge that I had never tried before (mistake #2) after letting the lather sit while I stropped in the Wacker I did my normal hot towel and re-lather then started shaving...

:dropjaw:

Did I stop??? nope like an idiot I kept going and was rewarded with a terrible shave, weepers, nicks, razor burn... So here is the the problem, because I had too many unknowns, I could not be sure what caused the bad shave, and I unlike many newbs to this hobby, can eliminate the actual shaving part of the equation, after 30+ years of this, I know how to handle a razor, and I know my face :p ... I also know how to hone a razor, and strop a razor, so I eliminated those too

Now yesterday morning I went back at this with a proved lather, as that was my first suspect, and was rewarded with a close comfortable shave...

Now imagine a new guy who has to add in all the other variables that I eliminated because of experience, and there is no wonder why we tell people to take things slow and steady and work through each problem...


Another variable that is little discussed, other than these two numbers 20° and 30°

The angle of attack when presenting the razor to the skin

I have never really been that comfortable with those two numbers myself, and when pressed I usually say two spine widths as this at least gets the new guys to realize that it will differ a bit with each razor.
It is actually more complicated, or looked at another way, much simpler, depending on the size and grind of the razor that angle will vary quite a bit, so to think of it as an actual angle might not be the easiest way to describe it to newbs..
The old razor inserts have given me the best idea for it, they say "Place the razor flat against the cheek and begin to move the razor, as you move the spine away from the face, when the razor begins to cut smoothly that is the proper angle" This sounds much harder then it actually is in practice.
This is pretty much exactly what experienced shavers do every day by feel :)
We start the stroke and we adjust the angle to cut the smoothest by feel, I know this is hard when first starting out, but this is why the advice is to start with the flat side of the cheeks first, so you can learn the feel of the razor and how it cuts...
The more time you take learning how the razor handles, and how each stroke cuts, and then cuts more efficiently, the better your shaves will be...


As always with these posts I encourage the Senior Members to add to this thread, as we often have different points of view and they could help someone out with our Hobby...

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