3 years later still having problems.

Hi all.

I've been straight razor shaving for almost three years now. I still consider myself a beginner because it seems that almost every day some new information comes along that changes the entire process for me. In the past three years I've paid close attention to the preshave, stropping, and (eventually) honing of my razors and after all of this I still encounter the same problem : the razor dulls too quickly.

I bought my first razor from a member selling on this forum almost 4 years ago for a humble $40 and shaved as soon as I got it.Worst shave of my life. I was told it was shave ready, it may have been and it's very likely that I was just that bad, and after the first shave I developed the feeling that it was not. I sent it to be honed by a local guy. It came back so sharp that my second shave actually took the top layer of skin right off my face. Learned a lot about angle of the blade that way. But then I noticed that after 4-5 shaves, no matter how thorough my stropping was, I went from a semi-decent shave to something that resembled the use of a dull Bowie knife.

I contacted the guy who honed my razor and got it honed again. He gave me a used but nice strop and some chromium oxide paste. Told me to touch up the blade every 5th or 6th shave. And I did. I noticed it was slightly better but by the 6th shave it generated more of the feeling of tearing hair out with a spoon. I thought maybe it was a bad razor. I bought a very nice Dovo to remedy that.

The dovo is a very nice razor. A great deal heavier and more substantial than my "Real Red Point" (which I don't know much about) with cheap scales is. But then I encountered the same thing again: had it honed, 5th shave...nightmare. I thought maybe it was my pre-shave process and so I decided to experiment. A very hot shower with water directly to the face followed by 3 wet/hot towels applied to the face and neck, Musglo Lime Soap applied to the face and left to sit for 5 minutes to soften the beard/stubble in between towels and then a great lather of Prorasso allowed to sit before a second coat is applied and the shave begins. I got a freshly honed Dovo back the other week and 5 days in....same problem. I hope that rules out the preshave

I should clarify: I'm not shaving hard enough to draw blood. I don't think pressure is an issue, thankfully I haven't knicked myself or drew blood spots in a good while now. I pay careful attention to the angle of the blade trying to keep very close to 30 degrees. I do not shave my full face. I have a thick beardy sort of jaw/chin strap. The only necessary shaving part is my cheeks/outlines and neck. The problem persists with the Dovo and Red Point so quality of razor (I don't think) isn't the issue. I've sent both razors to multiple members of Straight Razor Place for honing and got great quality work back from all of them

tldr; What am I doing wrong and could it be my stropping?

Please help. I'm tired of paying to have a razor honed every three weeks now.

I experienced the same sort of learning curve, less stropping pressure, and try to use less angle, I shaved nearly flat on the face then took it up a couple degrees at a time.

Hi,
My guess is that it is indeed your stropping.

You seem to be saying, basically, that though the first razor was sold as shave ready, for some reason it wasn't, as you say when you got it back from being honed it was noticeably sharper. If you stropped the first razor before you shaved with it, I wonder if you dulled the edge? Shaving with a straight will take off skin, but your face gets used to it. Did you strop the razor when you got it back from honing? You say 'thorough' stropping. What do you mean by that?

This is what I would do if I were you. Send both razors to the guy that honed your first razor to be honed. Ask the guy to test them first, and tell you if, in his opinion, they are shave ready or not. When you get them back, don't strop them. Shave with both and evaluate the shave and edges. Don't strop the razors, keep using ONE without stropping. Oil the other and put it away. Are the shaves OK? Does the razor's edge deteriorate as much as before? When the razor DOES dull (assuming the shaves are OK), strop it lightly and precisely (I'm assuming you know the basics of stropping) for only a few (10/20 linen leather, no paste) laps. Now compare the two razors by shaving with them both. Is the one you've used and stropped close to being as sharp as the other? Keep using only one and increase the stropping laps to your norm; but without paste (i.e. maybe 30/70 or 20/50; whatever you like). You could use the basically unused razor from time to time as a reference razor to judge the edge. When you can maintain your razor so its edge is as sharp as the reference razor, you could alternate between them. Then branch out into honing using a Norton 4/8; it's nice to be self sufficient. I think if you do all this you'll at least eliminate your stropping as the cause.

I think if you can get the guy who hones your razors to sterilise your razor, and then actually shave with it to evaluate the edge, he'll be able to let you know if the razor is in fact dull, or if your technique or prep is at fault.

Good on you for keeping at it for so long!

Carl

[EDIT] Actually, re-reading your post I'm not sure if you're honing yet or not...I think you say you are in the beginning but in the end it seems you say you're paying for it...

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

If you stropped the first razor before you shaved with it, I wonder if you dulled the edge? Shaving with a straight will take off skin, but your face gets used to it. Did you strop the razor when you got it back from honing? You say 'thorough' stropping. What do you mean by that?

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First razor was sold to me as shave ready. Not sure if it was or if I was bad a shaving. Terrible shave. Sent it to be honed in the same week. It came back noticeably sharper than when it left. I applied too much pressure and removed more of the top layer of skin than I believe is medically advisable. I had to use gauze patch over one of my cheeks for a week because of the damage. Very sharp. Did not strop on the 1st shave back from honing. I did from the 2nd shave onwards obviously. Thorough stropping: 25 strokes. My strop is not as wide as the razor so the sort of X pattern is required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I think if you can get the guy who hones your razors to sterilise your razor, and then actually shave with it to evaluate the edge, he'll be able to let you know if the razor is in fact dull, or if your technique or prep is at fault.

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I had both recently honed by Lynn Abrahms (figured that would rule out any honing inconsistencies) and he said they were both shave ready and good to go.

Could it be the quality of my strop?

And I don't even know where to begin with honing. I'm familiar with the process enough through my fandom of knives and cutlery but getting something workable out of honing a straight razor seems daunting. I've been paying people to do it for years.

I'm not finding it too difficult to hone, though I won't make any claims that my razors are "shave ready" because I have never had a razor hones by a pro :p well I do have one coming in the mail opefully soon...

It's hard to provide advice when it seems like everything is going poorly. Generically, razor edges are fragile. A strop is a powerful tool. Use a light touch and add some slight deflection when you strop. Take the time to learn the thumb pad test. Once you start figuring out how to perfect an edge and maintain it with only a strop you'll be golden. Also learn how to do a touch up with a hone because the learning curve for stropping is a precipice, one small mistake and the edge is blown completely.

A friend of mine tried to take up golf, and after three years he was still having great difficulty. The clubs were bad or the course wasn't maintained and up to par. He just wasn't getting the enjoyment out of the game and it was a myriad of other problems caused by forces beyond his control. But in that period he had only played 3 to 5 weeks of golf in the whole period and never considered that he hadn't really put the effort or time in to become competent or proficient at what he was trying to do. Patience, perseverance, and practice never entered his mind. Now, we're still great friends, but he's committed to the game and is equal to and surpassing me, and now I find I'm not as committed as him. It's a journey and you've got to accept the responsibility and make the commitment to the trip!!

Respectfully,

Howard

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Originally Posted by fifthmanstanding

First razor was sold to me as shave ready. Not sure if it was or if I was bad a shaving. Terrible shave. Sent it to be honed in the same week. It came back noticeably sharper than when it left. I applied too much pressure and removed more of the top layer of skin than I believe is medically advisable. I had to use gauze patch over one of my cheeks for a week because of the damage. Very sharp. Did not strop on the 1st shave back from honing. I did from the 2nd shave onwards obviously. Thorough stropping: 25 strokes. My strop is not as wide as the razor so the sort of X pattern is required.



I had both recently honed by Lynn Abrahms (figured that would rule out any honing inconsistencies) and he said they were both shave ready and good to go.

Could it be the quality of my strop?

And I don't even know where to begin with honing. I'm familiar with the process enough through my fandom of knives and cutlery but getting something workable out of honing a straight razor seems daunting. I've been paying people to do it for years.

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Hmmm. I'm more convinced it's the stropping. Again, I reccomend actually NOT stropping initially to rule that out. I doubt it's the quality of the strop, you can strop on newspaper and even a belt (my son uses his leather belt). Honing isn't all that hard, really. I'm really really crap at handyman stuff, but I taught myself to hone from this forum..

Keep at it, I'm sure you're learning!

If it is feasible for you to do so I would suggest that you try and meet one of the members that live in your area. Even better...try and get to one of the member gatherings. A hands on diagnosis of your problem and a live demo of proper technique will go a long way. You could even organize an informal get together. I know that sounds like a lot of effort, but it would be easier than continuing to struggle with the learning curve.

1. I agree with afdavis. Learn to touch up on a hone. At the very least you will be more self sufficient. You will save money and have more chances to shave.

2. I will go out on a limb and say it could be the strop. Maybe it's cupped, wrinkled, nicked? I recently got a great new paddle strop and then a new hanging strop, and my results improved.

3. Forget about 30 degree angle. Keep the razor very shallow. In some spots you will need to increase the angle and that seems to come naturally.

4. Most importantly you must try something different! Critically evaluate what you are doing and then CHANGE something. It doesn't matter what you do differently, just keep trying until you get the result you want. Only by experimenting will you learn.


If you keep trying and experimenting you are bound to get there.

Michael

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Originally Posted by mjsorkin

1. I agree with afdavis. Learn to touch up on a hone. At the very least you will be more self sufficient. You will save money and have more chances to shave.

2. I will go out on a limb and say it could be the strop. Maybe it's cupped, wrinkled, nicked? I recently got a great new paddle strop and then a new hanging strop, and my results improved.

3. Forget about 30 degree angle. Keep the razor very shallow. In some spots you will need to increase the angle and that seems to come naturally.

4. Most importantly you must try something different! Critically evaluate what you are doing and then CHANGE something. It doesn't matter what you do differently, just keep trying until you get the result you want. Only by experimenting will you learn.


If you keep trying and experimenting you are bound to get there.

Michael

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+1 on the above. If your putting enough pressure on your face to take that much skin off, and possibly using the same pressure with stropping/honing, which I would estimate is probably too much.

Also instead of adding pressure when shaving, stretch your face, it makes for a much more pleasurable shave :rock:

Grad yourself a barbers hone that can be gotten for not a lot of money. I personally use CBN on felt in the place of a barbers hone but to each his own. I usually have to do a touch-up about every 4 or 5 shaves but it depends on how well I prep. If one does not prep the hairs are really tough and can degrade an edge very quickly as can excessive blade angle.

Concerning angle of the razor. The keener the edge is the more you can lay the blade down and do what a lot of guys call "riding the edge", it is the point where the actual edge is not touching the skin and is riding just above the skin. Kinda like you get with disposables. That is an ideal, but usually it is somewhere between the two. There are different kinds of pressure when using a razor. If the blade is lying almost flat on your skin the cutting edge is almost off the skin. A lot more pressure can be applied in that case because the majority of the pressure is on the bevel not the cutting edge. There is a really fine line there and is something one needs to work out. I can do a 4 pass shave with a very keen razor, put on an aftershave, and get almost no burn.


Hang in there,
Richardddd

Learning to use a straight requires the mastery of a variety of skills. They don't come automatically and they don't just come with time. if you don't learn the proper way you will only reinforce the bad. The way you struggle on your first shave you will still be struggling it 10 years from now.

You need to stop everything and reevaluate how you are doing every task from prep to stropping and the actual shave and honing too. Somewhere along the line you missed something. Break the cycle and stop struggling. AF is right so it's hard to give specifics. If you can get with another member in person that would really help.

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Originally Posted by riooso

There is a really fine line there and is something one needs to work out. I can do a 4 pass shave with a very keen razor, put on an aftershave, and get almost no burn.

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Can you please explain this?

Do you mean that you can have a shave with four passes? If so, that is incredible.

Or do you have four shaves with one razor before a touch up?

+1 to pressure and getting a norton 4/8

I must say to me it all sounds like a pressure issue. Stropped too hard, and using too much pressure while shaving. I read somewhere on here a while back where when you pull your strop hard with one hand, it is almost inevitable that you will use more force stropping than you intended. I would definately lighten your touch up to the point where you are only using the blades weight. It is easy to add pressure gently.

as for the norton 4/8, it is a great stone that will keep you shaving for years. Pressure will be a key on this as well. When you are only maintaining an edge, you should not use pressure on the stroke. If you do, your edge will suffer and so will you when you shave!

You could try using a bench strop till you get used to using a hanging strop. With a bench strop it is hard to round an edge unless you are using way to much pressure.

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Originally Posted by strtman

Can you please explain this?

Do you mean that you can have a shave with four passes? If so, that is incredible.

Or do you have four shaves with one razor before a touch up?

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The fine line is the ability to have exactly the correct angle.....a little steeper and you have the cutting edge on the skin....a little less steep an angle and the cutting edge is a fraction of a millimeter above the skin. The reference to the four passes is that one can do four passes and still have no irritation because the edge is not really on the skin....thus no irritation.


Later,
R

Stop. Don't buy anything. Don't try anything...Except this: Get with a member that knows what he's doing. That'll be up to you do figure out who that person is. I'm not recommending anyone specifically, because it's their time I'd be offering up. Anyways, use skype, and show that person everything you're doing. That person will troubleshoot you. Follow that persons advice. Don't post a question where you'll get fifty opinions/guesses. Just choose someone to teach you, ask them to teach you, in real time....and learn. Once again...Don't buy anything until a knowledgeable person has seen you in person, and can tell you what you're doing wrong.

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

Stop. Don't buy anything. Don't try anything...Except this: Get with a member that knows what he's doing. That'll be up to you do figure out who that person is. I'm not recommending anyone specifically, because it's their time I'd be offering up. Anyways, use skype, and show that person everything you're doing. That person will troubleshoot you. Follow that persons advice. Don't post a question where you'll get fifty opinions/guesses. Just choose someone to teach you, ask them to teach you, in real time....and learn. Once again...Don't buy anything until a knowledgeable person has seen you in person, and can tell you what you're doing wrong.

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I couldn't agree more.
I'm often on skype so call me and I'll see what I can see and try to help