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any suggestions for inexpensive razors to practice honing on?
i have purchased a norton set of hones and would like to get right to it honing. but i would rather not start on a hi-dollar razor.
i would like to start on something a little less expensive.
Get some cheap razors from eBay, look for hollow grounds and stay away from the wedges for a while.
Check out the classifieds here, tons of great stuff at great value...some high end razors, but also some beaters that are functional and great for learning to shave and hone on.
Hey Jeb,
I would advocate a classified purchase from a str8 user for a number of reasons. A fleaby/antique store 'find' usually needs restorative grinding to make it ready to hone. This seems foggy to some - don't dismiss it. The best blade I could think of would be a shave ready razor from the classifieds that has no smile (certainly no frown - or it wouldn't be shave ready) has a completely straight cutting edge, is at least full hollow (extra is better), and no warp or wave (hard to check before getting it on the stones). This eliminates the distractions from the basics of honing. The extra hollow will respond quickly. The draw of the cheap 'finds' is more than most can resist. I think you'd be glad if you got a couple blades that were just sound as is - and it would speed you learning.
Just reading your first post
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...er-newbie.html
And the only thing I can say is Cart ---- Horse :shrug:
You really might want to figure out what "shave ready" even is before you start chasing it
Spot on! Learn to shave before you learn to hone.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
ok good replies. thanks. i have a Dovo 6/8 and have been through an entire three shaves with it. i guess im doing ok. only a few nicks and the razor burn is getting better. i am not sure about my prep work and i have read a few places that the new razors my need some additional honing before being really shave ready. just wondering. i wouldnt want to screw up my good one first for lack of practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
i dont know of anyone locally that i can get my straight razor honed. (Hayward Ca.)
so i was looking to work on a couple of buys that would allow some practice time.
so i am up for a lesson. what should i look for as far as shave ready is concerned?
jeb
This is why gssixgun is one of the most respected members of the SRP community: simple, straight-forward and entirely appropriate instruction. I wish I knew 1/100th of what this guy knows about razors!Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
ok i have seen some back patting for comments made. but that does not get me where i need to be. if the only thing you guys can do is brush up a guy that is a vendor (exception to those who pointed me in the direction of inexpensive razors.....thank you) then i am still sitting here twittling my thumbs on what is "shave ready"Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus
i ventured here on the advice from the founder of this forum on the recommendation of his DVD. if this is the response i get.......lame comments about the cart and the horse and some stupid smiley face.......from someone who is respected and has knowledge on the subject and does not give me any advice or input on the subject of "shave ready" then i am "ready" to go somewhere else.
thanks for the intro to the "Straight Razor" forum.
bye
jeb
The only way you can know what shave ready is, is to gain a lot of experience. In the meantime, it's best to trust someone who does know what shave ready is to hone your razor. There's not really an adequate way to describe it in print. There is something on the main page I believe that descirbes a shave ready razor. It's titled something like "What is shave ready?". It's likely that it'll take a fair bit of time for you to be able to identify it for yourself. Pinklather's advice is spot on btw. I spent months trying to hone blades that needed restorative grinding and feeling like a complete loser for not being able to hone. So take that advice! :) Find something inexpensive from the classifieds that has been evaluated by someone with a good bit of experience, and go that route. It'll save you alot of time and frustration. It is suggested that a person spend about six months shaving with a shave ready straight before they begin honing. This is also sound advice, but not often abided. I didn't either. The reasoning is that, at that point, you will have a better idea of what shave ready should feel like, and hence a clear goal to shoot for while honing. If I can be of help in any way, feel free to PM me.
Jeb,
This is a gentlemanly forum where we do not bash others. Gssixgun may be a vendor, but if you look on here for any amount of time, I think that you will find the value of his contributions, outweigh any profit he may make. The guy will help anyone and just loves this hobby.
Regards,
Joe
Gentlemen, let's keep it civil, the OP is new here and doesn't quite understand that we are actually trying to help...
If we didn't care we would have simply said, "Go find some razors on e-bay or at the antique store and rub them on rocks, and sooner or later you will either learn or give up"
or We could have said "Why don't you look at the tens of thousands of posts on SRP that ask the exact same question, or Wow we have a search function or GIYF"
We didn't because here at SRP we try and help people avoid the same mistakes that so many others made even when that advice is unheeded and ignored..
BTW for those looking for help locally, above you there is the Community tab in there is a link that says OMG "Local Help"
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...php/Local_Help
Makes me think of another saying about a horse,,,
Horse ---Water ---Drink
Jeb,Quote:
Originally Posted by jebbaker
PM me and I will hone a razor for you for the cost to mail.
Paul
Jeb PM me and I will send you a "Shave ready razor" at no cost.
And there you have a good example of leaving a forum just a post or two too early.
gssixgun:Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
You are absolutely right. While I am not ashamed of the content of my post that was deleted, I just don't like guys giving out "attitude" where it is not warranted. You provided a strong reminder of what SRP is all about. Thank you!
Sadly. Glen has been nothing but good to me. I think he didn't see the post entirely in the way Glen meant for it to come across. I started honing way too early, but that was before I found this wealth of information. I also went and received instruction from a Master Sharpener (in the Japanese school) on how to hone a razor, and after a month of mediocre results and shaving with my first razor (honed by a pro) for a while, I learned that his wasn't actually the best way to do it. Jeb, don't get discouraged, I would suggest you get the razor honed by a professional, like gssixgun, learn to shave and strop with it, and while you are doing that, you can practice honing.
And one thing I learned, some of you will think I am a heretic, but it helped sharpening all my kitchen, camping, and hunting knives and figuring out how to get the best possible edge every time! I now have a kitchen full of knives that will easily cut through a single layer of newspaper without tearing it... :)
But to the subject at hand, almost all the guys here are real stand-up men who share an interest in a single thing "Straight Razor Shaving!"
I disagree that you need lots of straight razor experience to know if something is "shave ready". Anyone with any shaving experience whatsoever knows whether an implement will shave their whiskers or not. Sure, they'll need to muck around with angle and the kind of stroke, but that is hardly difficult to both grasp or implement. I knew my first razor was not shave ready the first time I ever used a straight, and I am a renowned twit.
I think sometimes we get caught up in the minutia and forget it is simply about safely and effectively shaving. You can, for example, actually shave off a <10K edge, believe it or not. I shaved off an 8k edge for several years. In fact, I shaved off a factory Dovo edge every second day for about 2 weeks before finally honing it. It is all about learning as you go and progressively building up expertise and experience - none of the older hands had a forum like this, nor did they have the information contained within it, and they most certainly did not have the working definition of "shave-ready" that we seem to have nowadays, and yet they managed to learn to hone and shave.
So to the OP, it's your money, your time, your face, your learning experience. I would suggest you not buy the world's most expensive razor to learn to hone on, simply because you may have some issues, but by the same token you may not. I never killed any of my learning razors, so perhaps you won't either.
Good luck to you.
James.
I have sent my first razor to SRD for a hone job, but in a couple weeks when and I've dulled my blade on flesh and stropped my edge to death may i take you up on your free honing offer? haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8Shooter
Seriously though, I feel from what I've seen on this sight in the last few days, without this community like this, many newbies like myself would be SOL. You can laugh and crack jokes at my lack of knowledge anytime. I thank the many of you SRP members for this wonderful resource.
Thanks again!
We all started knowing squat!! Actually because of honing knives it was worse for me as it is a COMPLETELY different animal. The offer is still there though and you are right in assuming you will trash out your edge with the strop! and probobly the strop. practice that with a dull butter knife.Quote:
Originally Posted by Groth
Paul
Noooo!! Expect the best of yourself!! Have high expectations in your mind, because your actions will surely follow your thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8Shooter
James.
"Use the Force, Luke. Trust your feelings." -Obi-Wan KenobiQuote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I don't get it... What has shaving to do with honing??
Honing is a technique that needs alot of practise!
You need to start out at some point.
It's like saying... 'You can't be a surgeon if you never had surgery before'...
It's just a technique... It's no secret ninja stuff.
Even a new guy can tell the difference between a honed razor and a 'shave ready' razor.
I was a new guy a couple months ago. I still am. I had no idea what the difference was between a "sharp" and a "shave ready" razor...until I used a shave ready razor. THEN I knew.Quote:
Originally Posted by stax
And that, I think, is the point that gssixgun was trying to make.
(On a side note, I saw your other post. I recently had Leffe for the first time and it is AWESOME)
This whole thread is just the sad case of what happens when you don't do enough research before acting. A couple hours of browsing the forums and wiki would have:
introduced him to the way the community operates
allowed him to recognize the guys whose advice is well regarded
given him a sense that "shave ready" cannot be described, it has to be experienced
answered the questions in his first thread, and possibly the one he had here too
This forum is already a huge depository of information. I've found that over 3/4ths of what I needed to know about sr shaving has already been addressed. Chances are that the last 1/4 is too, I just may not have searched hard enough. Reading and lurking more, at this forum, leads to successful shaves.
The point is that in order to test out a blade you hone, you must first know what a properly honed razor "feels" like when you shave. Why? Because that is really the only way to know that it is "shave ready".Quote:
Originally Posted by stax
You are right in the aspect that honing is practice. It takes quite a bit of it to even start to get good at it. It's also quite a bit of fun. I sat down at the last houston meet up and touched up 20 razors and had a blast. Walk first. Learn to shave. Learn what hones you need. More then likely you don't have them yet. Educate yourself on the techniques. It all comes in time. There is no instant gratification in this "fraternity".
Surgeon's go to medical school for 4 years studying after 4 years of undergrad, then intern/residency 3-4 years before they ever get to make 1 incision. FYI
That was a very wise answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by igga
Paul
Quote:
Originally Posted by stax
Well my $.02 you are partly correct. Honing is a technique. Shaving is a technique. It isn't secret Ninja Stuff or we would all have been beheaded by now and the site destroyed.
HOWEVER, no a new guy can't tell the difference between a honed razor and shave ready razor because his shaving technique hasn't developed to the point it can be eliminated as a variable. I started with a shavette cause I knew it was sharp.
I began honing while still learning to shave(still am learning). The shavette showed me how much I had to learn. The shave ready razors I bought demonstrated some people knew how to hone a straight nearly as sharp as the shavette while other folks obviously didn't know what shave ready was.
Now my shaving technique has improved my focus is on smooth as well as sharp. It would have been much simpler if I had focused on learning the shave technique before trying to develop honing technique as I simply couldn't discern subtle improvements by test shaving. I just seldom do things the easy way. Like Tina Turner I like to do things the hard way.
The student honer faces the problem of testing his edge and the only reliable way to test is to shave. If you are learning both techniques simultaneously there is no reliable means to determine cause and effect.
The OP sent me a PM and we are in the process of getting him a shave ready razor and one to learn to hone. I am far from an expert but it is clear to me as my shaving technique improves my edges are improving.
You know if you read the OP it is easy to understand how someone from the outside looking in could be put off by our collective response in this instance. It doesn't read like the friendly, inviting and helpful bunch we really are.
Do or do not.... there is no try.Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus
Stax, I think you need to read this twiceQuote:
Originally Posted by stax
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaswarb
Very well put Jas
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaswarb
Wow! I'm glad he didn't get permanently scared off!
Here's to a better response next time he posts: :beer2:
sorry. im a talker and not a lurker.
if you met me in person you would understand that i dont have a problem asking anyone questions about something i find very interesting.
when i wanted to get my helicopter rating i just went in the door introduced myself and said i didint need in intro flight and that i wanted to take my first hour.
when i joined the army i did the same thing. i walked in and said hello my name is jeb and where do i sign.
i am a member of a pilots forum and we have many noobs stop in and start asking questions. unless they are total jerks then we answer them by telling them where to go for basic information and getting them into a conversation to see where they want to go because many of them dont even know where to start. that is where i am now with shaving with i straight razor. i thought that i would be able to get into a running conversation with some people. looks like i have but not in the way i or anyone here would have liked. i was a little put off by how some that first bunch of posts went. i felt like was being told to do something with no directions and no place to look.
to the gents who sent me links to the vids and answered some questions you do a service to the forum. str8tshooter, jaswarb, smalltank, ignatius.
i am a tradesman my self. i am a welder first and now an inspector. i am learning to fly a helicopter. i am learning to shave with a straight razor. on the things i find most interesting i jump right in. all of these things take many hours of practice and time getting it right. i tell my welding students that your learning curve makes a jump when you make a mistake and learn from it. (i hope to not make too many mistakes on face as i only have one and its gotten me a lovely wife)
ok next subject.
what is....OP (figured this one out)....GYIF...i got out of the army a long long long time ago and surely dont remember any of those and well....i am not to up on the forum slang.
jeb
GIYF = google is your friend.
Welcome Jeb - it's good to see you've stuck it out. In medical terms I think it's fair to say your intro to SRP was a bit of a difficult birth, but I trust that with time you'll come to see that the good things that have been said about the members here have been well earned. :)
Best of luck!
Jeb,
Your last post rubbed most of us the wrong way. As gssixgun rightly noted, this IS a gentleman's club, and most of us behave accordingly. I am willing to apologize for my (deleted) comment to you. However, referring to a gesture of respect toward another senior member as unwarranted "back-patting" is uncalled for. Learn our standards of behaviour or begone. I spent too many years of my life dealing with so-called wannabe "tough guys" like you in dressing rooms who never measured up to a tin whistle in a high wind on the ice only to see them crumple and end up crying in the trainer's room when taking stitches. Talking tough here is easy. Try it in real life sometime.
Demanding satisfaction,
mapleleafalumnus
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebbaker
No, you are a loudmouth whiner who complains when he doesn't get precisely what he wants the first time out of the gate, just like a 3-year old baby.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebbaker
Thanks for the comments everybody. Much appreciated.
Still i believe that shaving and honing are 2 completely different things.
Why do i believe that? Well here in Belgium is a woman that hones straight razors.
She never uses straight razors... Are they less sharp than a 'honemeister' (as you call them here i think)?
No absolutely not!
I trust her technique... Not her 'shaving' experience...
I do agree on collecting information before you want to hone.
I've read alot on the wiki, watched alot on youtube, read this forum and still reading every day.
But.. it is clear to me that i have to 'filter' the information.
There are alot of techniques to achieve perfection. Different shaving techniques etc etc etc.
For an absolute beginner you really have to struggle to find the right information.
And if we are honest... Not everybody has the will, stamina nor time to do this 'quest'.
Also i've read alot of comments like: 'send your razor to Lynn' or 'let somebody else hone it for you' etc etc.
That doesn't really help alot. It might give you an 'idea' how sharp a razor can be. But it doesn't mean that you can achieve that perfection when a beginner starts to hone or how to achieve it.
I bought a 59€ (74$) DOVO 6/8 razor. Just to practise.
The redwood 5/8 DOVO is to expensive to practise on.
In the beginning it is trial and error for sure. But it will give you a 'feel' how you have to hone.
And as the honing technique is getting better you will eventually achieve a true shave ready razor.
I'm not convinced you have to have a 'reference' point to start honing.
As your honing technique is getting better you eventually will achieve perfection.
I'm not saying that honing without 'sharpness experience' is the best way to do it.
But i believe it really is possible.
A razor bought brand new and not honed by somebody is still a sharp razor.
You can shave WTG without problems with such a razor.
Can you shave ATG with it? No... it lacks sharpness...
Is it necessary for everybody to shave ATG? No...
If somebody is just happy with a WTG shave than you don't need a blade as sharp as a pornmodels body.
Just my 2 cents.
My mothertongue is Dutch... so i apologise for my English.
Don't intend to offend anybody...
Your english is very good stax, I wouldnt worry about that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by stax
You make some good points, but if I was to give any advice to you it would be read up on the BASICS, I read for weeks and got confused with the subtleties. Get a shave ready razor from a vendor, when it becomes dull grab a finisher and bring it back to shave readyness, Little chance of removing huge amounts of metal and damaging a valuable razor. practice your honing technique with finishers and then move onto bevel to finish honing.
Its not an embarrassment to start with training wheels, we all had to at one point ;) I've noticed alot of newbies have this want for honing to be difficult when they start or it doesnt feel like they're honing... start with touching up a dulled professionally shaved razor and eventually you will need to go to rougher hones to bring it back. by that time your technique should have developed the correct feel and touch needed. Muscle memory doesn't come overnight... relax and chill out man, there's no such thing as the honing express :D its like reading a book, start at page 1 and take yer time:)
regards Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by stax
There ya go, you didn't offend anyone, but you did just say exactly what the rest of us said, You have to undersatnd we give advice for the easiest path, if you don't want to walk it that's fine to...
But the easiest path is still just that ...
There are many ways to sharp and smooth there is no right or wrong but there sure are the ways that work for the most people...
It is apparent that this thread went sideways and isn't going to ever get straight again, (pun Intended)
I am closing it down for the rest of the Mods to look over