Braggin by Proxy

I'm posting this on behalf of my grandson. I just got off the phone with him 5 minutes ago. He reported the results of his very first wet shave! Obviously I'm proud of him, hence the by proxy posting. :rock:

About 2 weeks back he and I got on the subject of wet shaving; I think it was about the time I gashed my pinky finger with one of my str8s. The conversation went from him giving me grief to why I chose to take up wet shaving. I gave him the big 3: nostalgia, skin health, and cost saving; he seemed interested in all three which I found abnormal for an 17-year old. Sooo I asked if he might be interested in learning how. He wasn't sure how to answer because his mother doesn't have the means to set him up with the gear and he doesn't want to ask for what he knows could possibly be fairly expensive. To avoid embarassing him I began digging out my starter gear and offered it to him to see if he could "get the hang of it."
Instead of giving him a str8 razor I gave him the shavette I started with along with all the other necessary gear he would need to get through a shave. Most importantly, I gave him my copy of The World of Straight Razor Shaving to watch. I also gave him a "Practice razor" to learn the proper angle and strokes before ever putting a real blade to his face. I know a shavette is not a straight razor BUT he would not have to worry about stropping or damaging one of my razors. After he left and I gave the situation more thought I realized the err of my decision; a shavette offers more opportunity for cuts and nicks than a straight razor.
I called Trey a couple days ago to see how practice was coming along. He reported that he was practicing almost daily, which pleased me greatly. I told him that when he was ready for his first live shave to give me a call so I could bring him one of my straight razors to use and then explained why. When he called me tonight he said he had had a bad day and needed to relax so he went into the bathroom, mixed up some lather and "went for it." Sound familiar to anyone? I found it quite interesting that a 17-year old would choose wet shaving to relax him considering he had never done it before, except to practice. How cool is that. :hmmm:
He doesn't know it yet but my wife and I purchased a Merkur something something DE for him to take into the Navy with him. While he is away serving his country I will start a small collection of straight razors for him for when he finishes his career as a swab jockey.

It's always a great feeling to start someone successfully down the path to shaving bliss. Congrats.

OldSoldier, that is way cool! I'm absolutely certain he will fully appreciate your investment in him! :tu

OldSoldier… First off, you tell that young man that an old hardhat swab jock told him “thanks for carrying on where we left off.” As for the DE, that’s the same thing I used while I was in. I just never had the time to keep using the straights. Seemed like everything had to be in a hurry.

There are some things that break through the generations. Sometimes, when one gets older (I'm 50) simple things like teaching someone to shave (properly) can be really fulfilling. When I taught my older son to shave with a straight it was quite momentous.

Actually, the best response to this is 'good on you for taking the time'. A lot of guys don't 'take the time' with their kids, grandkids, etc. We all MEAN to, but sometimes it gets a lot like that 'Cats in the Cradle' song; you know the one. We should all just slow down and take time to smell the shaving soap...

Update on the grandson's progress. I loaned him one of my Dovo 5/8", actually my latest "new" razor purchase, to use in stead of the shavette. After I gave him the shavette I remembered that they aren't exactly the safest things in the world to use.
He called yesterday to let me know he was going to take the plunge. I asked if he wanted me to drive in to town to assist or coach or just be there in case he needed some support. "Thanks pawpaw but I think I've got it," was his reply. I felt a little let down but proud at the same time, knowing he was confident in his ability based on what I had taught him, along with what he had learned from the WoSR DVD and a video on Utube.
I anxiously awaited a text or call to let me know how he did but nothing came last night. He made me wait until today to finally give me a report on how well he did. He reported getting a little nervous back-stroking his neck for the first couple of strokes and the only cut was eliminating a "zit." He then told me he likes Str8 razor shaving, "it's cool."
He enjoys the time it takes to prepare, the concentration required, the skill required, and the fact that none of his friends are brave enough to even think about attempting it. I guess I don't have to tell you guys that his report and comments about his new found enjoyment in our shared "thing" made swell just a little with pride only a grandfather feels when he connects with his grandson.
Tomorrow is his 18th birthday and he will be receiving his new DE to take with him once he finished Navy boot camp. I found out he cannot take it with him to boot camp. At least he will be able to use before he goes if he chooses. Given that he is getting as much enjoyment out of the str8 as he is, the DE may just sit until he comes home to get it enroute to his first assignment. Regardless the choice of instrument, he is now an enthusiastic wet shaver, as are we all.
The young man is a bit of a trend setter among his friend so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have some of his friends wet shaving before he leaves for boot camp. Or he might just tell them it's too hard for them so he can be the cool guy for a bit longer, one never knows about these kids nowadays. :)

I look forward to doing the same with my grandsons. In about 10 years.
Good job!

rolo

Cool story! The best part is that he will remember his grandfather, for the rest of his life, every time he shaves with a straight razor. The DE will serve him well in the Navy, in case he can not get his str8 service in time. I'm sure they will allow him a str8 on any ship after boot camp. However, straight razor shaving on high sea? That's another story! Double

Unfortunately the str8 will not be allowed unless he is on shore duty. I checked the regs and the str8 would be considered a weapon while on board ship. BUT when I spoke with a recruiter he said when it comes down to it the final word rests with each ship's skipper, he gets to make the rules for his ship. That's why I bought the DE for him, plus the fact that str8 razor shaving could be quite tricky out at sea. Either way, he will have his choice.
When he joins the fleet I may ask him to look for razors when he hits foreign ports. That could lead to an interesting collection.

Strange that a straight would be considered a weapon. When I was in ( back in the days of iron men and wooden ships ) everyone on board was required to carry a sizeable knife. Just in case you steped into the bight of a line. But then, when I went to school, almost every boy carried a knife there too.
Many times I wish I had stayed in the Navy. My son is in now. A Master Chief with 17 years. You must be very proud of your grandson.

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Originally Posted by mackie

Strange that a straight would be considered a weapon. When I was in ( back in the days of iron men and wooden ships ) everyone on board was required to carry a sizeable knife. Just in case you steped into the bight of a line. But then, when I went to school, almost every boy carried a knife there too.
Many times I wish I had stayed in the Navy. My son is in now. A Master Chief with 17 years. You must be very proud of your grandson.

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If you check with the Chief I hope he will verify what the recruiter has told me about the razors. I have never fully trusted recruiters. Today's military is far different from when I first enlisted 31+ years ago. BUT even back then a straight razor or DE would not have been allowed in basic training, the str8 as a weapon and the DE for suicide prevention. Once basic and school was completed it didn't matter what a soldier chose to shave with. I believe the str8 might have drawn some unwanted attention until the user convinced the chain of command he was in fact using it for nothing but shaving.
I never did fully understand the suicide issue in basic training while I was there. It wasn't as though any of us were drafted, we all volunteered and if it ever got too rough all a person had to do was go through channels and he would have been sent home. Yet almost every veteran I have spoken with since 1981 has reported at least one suicide he had 1st hand knowledge of. 'nuf on that subject.
To say I'm proud of Trey is a bit of an understatement. While he chose the Navy over the Army or Marine Corps, which are the branches I served, I am still quite proud of him just for joining. He leaves for the MEPS tomorrow morning and won't be home until Thursday afternoon. I hope he gets his first choice for rating and doesn't have to wait until January like they are telling him.
IF he does have to wait 6 more months to ship he and I will put the time to good use preparing him for training. The boot camp training guidlline is available on-line and i told him that if he has to wait 6 more months he'll know all 478 pages front and back to ensure he's prepared and ready to compete for honor graduate. It will also give him more time to perfect his wet shaving techniques, both straight razor and with the DE we gave him for his birthday last night.
He was very happy when he opened his presents. He got a "gig" bag for his banjo to store it while he gone and a DE with the sample pack of blades, a travel shaving soap and a container for used blades. Normal people, those would shave the "modern" way might think the shaving gear my wife and I bought him might seem odd for a birthday present but Trey loved it and that's all that counts to us. I laughed when I showed him the adjust ment on the DE and told him the one I have doesn't have it. he looked at me and said "if you don't need it, I don't need it." I could have saved a few bucks on the razor if I had known that would be his attitude:) Anyway...
My wife got to actually talk with him about the whole wet shaving thing tonight for the 1st time. When she asked him how he liked it, he got a Chesire cat grin on his face and reported to her that he "loves" it and can't wait for his whiskers to come in so he can shave again. Does it sound like he might already be addicted after only 3 shaves? I am anxious to hear how he does and what he thinks of the DE as a back up to the straight razor.

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Originally Posted by OldSoldier

My wife got to actually talk with him about the whole wet shaving thing tonight for the 1st time. When she asked him how he liked it, he got a Chesire cat grin on his face and reported to her that he "loves" it and can't wait for his whiskers to come in so he can shave again. Does it sound like he might already be addicted after only 3 shaves? I am anxious to hear how he does and what he thinks of the DE as a back up to the straight razor.

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And that is a true convert! On this fast pace life, taking time to enjoy the little things is precious, and from the sound of it, it looks like he has it. He will do well in the Navy (the Navy have more brains than the Army or Marines anyway)(now I open a can of worm). Double O

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Originally Posted by Double0757

(the Navy have more brains than the Army or Marines anyway)(now I open a can of worm). Double O

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Spoken like a true swab jockey! Believe me when I say I am not in the least bit insulted by your comment. I have taken the ASVAB 2 times the scoring changed between iterations, my first score was 148 and the second was 127. The maximum possible scores were 150 and 130 respectively, BTW those are GT scores. Sooooo, as you can see, I have no reason to ever take shots about intelligence between services personally. :) Yes, I suppose I was bragging just a little bit.
Inter-service rivalry is an old friend of mine and my family's; my older brother retired last after serving 30 years in the Air Force, one of my younger brothers served 12 years in the Army National Guard participating in Desert Shield/Storm, one brother served a 4-year hitch at Ft Stewart in the Army as a mechanic and my youngest brother served 3 1/2 years of his 4-year enlistment, before getting injured, with the 7th Light Infantry out of Fort Ord, CA he was in Panama when Operation Just Cause kicked off and he got to stay through for most of the operation. I served 15+ in the Army and 6 in the Marine Corps completing 2 tours of Duty in Iraq one of which was the invasion tour, "opening a can of worms" to use your words. :) As you might imagine, my oldest brother has always been the victim of comments about the Air Force being a "soft" service especially since he managed to avoid anything close to combat throughout his 30 years and only served 1 1-year overseas tour and 2 of their famous 90 "overseas tours" which all other branches laugh at because we spend more time on field operations at one time than they spend on an entire "tour" of duty. Of course there are many other things I have beat him up over during the on-going inter-service battle, all in family fun, but I'll keep them between him and me.
In all honesty, I have never denied that I have steered young men and women toward the Navy or Air Force when I see they are NOT comabt arms material or they do NOT posess that inner quality required to succeed in the very different worlds of the Army or Marine Corps. If I know they have a high ASVAB score or will do well and are looking for technical training to set themselves up for a civilian career I always steer them toward the Air Force or Navy. I have even talked a few out of joining the Army and into joining the Navy for those reasons.
I love debating service differences with veterans, as long as they are adult enough to take what they dish out and understand it is all in fun but most importantly that in the end we are all on the same side. I have always been of the opinion that everyone should serve my country at least 2 years and as long as someone serves I couldn't care less which branch he chooses to serve in.
All right, I have run away at the keyboard again. I have a bad habit of typing complete thoughts instead of one-liners, I think they are a waste of time and often times lead to arguments or misunderstandings at the least.
Semper Fi,
Army Strong,
Something Navy (I need to learn this one now)
Aim High
God Bless America

I served 14 years in the Air force and I'm with you on the inter service rivelary. I just like to see people's faces as I comment on it.
Here is a good one:
Four four star generals, from Navy, Army, Marines and Air Force are bragging about who has the bravest men. ( you may have herd it before)
When the Army general says, " I have the bravest men, watch this". "Hey soldier, go stop that tank comming down the hill". The soldier gets up, run in front of the tank and try to stop it with its bare hands. The tank runs over him and shred him to pieces. The Army General smiles and says, "That's was a brave soldier!"
The Navy general, not to be out done, tells a sailor. "Hey sailor go stop that F14 Tomcat taking off that carrier". The sailor gets up , run in front of the jet and with his hand pushes the nose of the airplane as the Tomcat is release from the catapult. The sailor gets catapulted on to the sea to get run over by the ships propellers. The Navy Genral turns to the others and says, Now, that was a brave sailor".
The Marine knowing he has them beat, tells a marine, "Hey Marine go stop that Harrier from taking off". The marine without hesitation gets up, grabs to the wheels of the jet and try to pull it down back to the ground, as he gets char by the jet blast from the Harrier. The Marine General take a puff out of his cigar and says, "That, was and will always be a brave Marine".
The Air Force general smirking inside tells the other three "Watch now", "Airman, go stop that F-16 before it takes off". The airman gets up turns to the general and says " Are you F#*

I hadn't heard that one before. I like it. I'll try it out on my brother, who by the way retired as a Chief after 30 years faithful service in the Air Force.
Today while waiting for the recruiter to come pick up my grandson we were looking up the different service mottos only to discover that you guys really need to work on yours :)
Marine Corps - Semper Fidelis or Always Faithful
Army - This We'll Defend
Navy - Non sibi sed patriae or Not self bu country
Air Force - Aim high
The navy Marine Corps and Army mottos all refer to serving the country; what's up with aiming high? I guess we can keep the inter-service rivalry alive and well here on SRP but perhaps should begin a new thread to do so.
Thank you for your service. Know that when I say that it isn't said as a catch phrase as it is by all those civilians who want be cool or think it's the least they can do to feel good about participating in the defense of this country.

I'm coming back to this thread without really following it, but was prompted to write in reference to the 'mottos'.
I'll always love the Australian Army Artillery one; 'With Honour and Glory Lead'.
I also like the phrase 'Artillery lend dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar conflict'.
I'd also like to say I'm very much taken with the level of gratitude seems to be shown by 'average' Americans. While here in Australia service is certainly valued, it doesn't seem to attract the level of spoken gratitude it appears to in America.

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

I'm coming back to this thread without really following it, but was prompted to write in reference to the 'mottos'.
I'll always love the Australian Army Artillery one; 'With Honour and Glory Lead'.
I also like the phrase 'Artillery lend dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar conflict'.
I'd also like to say I'm very much taken with the level of gratitude seems to be shown by 'average' Americans. While here in Australia service is certainly valued, it doesn't seem to attract the level of spoken gratitude it appears to in America.

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Being a former artilleryman, at one time in my career, I am somewhat embarrassed to say I am unfamiliar with either of your quotes. I do find them interesting, especially the second one considering how artillery turns a battlefield into a scene of vulgar carnage when it's used effectively.
My personal take on the whole American gratitude for our military is sure to step on a few toes here so I will apologize now. Everyone here has tough skin and has proven they are open to varied opinions. My opinion on this topic is just that, MINE and you can take it or leave it. This country had a heritage of honoring it's veterans when they returned home from the front lines up until the Korean war and it got down right embarassing how our Vietnam veterans were treated when they came home.
Those same hippy war-protesting freakshows who so willingly spit on our returning warriors back in the 60s and early 70s are now the parents and grandparents of the warriors returning home from the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq. How would it look for them to spit on their children and grandchildren? Some of those same people are now politicians and it would not bode well for winning votes to out there treating returning veterans like shit again even though deep down inside they can't stand what we are doing.
BUT most of all the veterans of Vietnam have spearheaded the efforts to ensure no returning veterans ever get treated the way they did. If not for their efforts and the resurgence of national patriotism by a small majority of Americans after 9-11 I think it might be a different story. So I would say that most of the credit goes to the Vietnam veterans for the way returning warriors are welcomed home now.
When I walked through the Dallas airport I had tears in my eyes while walking through the lines of people welcoming me home. The tears came from never being one who enjoyed being in front of a crowd receiving accolades for doing my job so I guess you could say I was embarassed. As I walked I noticed a lot of Vietnam veteran caps worn by men who also had tears in their eyes; I began telling them "welcome home" remembering how they had been treated. I went through this reception both times I came home on R&R leave, as I did 2 tours and I cried both times.
One thing else I noticed about the lines of people who flanked us and showered us us with "welcome homes" was that besides Vietnam veterans there were veterans from other wars, surviving spouses of men who gave their all, surviving spouses of veterans, and a very small amount of non-military connected personnel. While the world looking sees it to be a national effort, I would say it is still primarily a military thing and probably always will be because when it comes right down to it we have an insight that civilians just can't understand because they haven't been there.
For those who are ready to blaze away at your keyboards, please remember that this is MY opinion and at no time did I say I did not appreciate the effort or the reception. I actually felt it was too much for me any way because I am the type who gets embarassed when recognized for doing my job. If I ever got wind I was about to receive a medal I would attempt to have it given to me in the 1SG's office and leave it at that. Anyway...

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Originally Posted by OldSoldier

Being a former artilleryman, at one time in my career, I am somewhat embarrassed to say I am unfamiliar with either of your quotes. I do find them interesting, especially the second one considering how artillery turns a battlefield into a scene of vulgar carnage when it's used effectively.
My personal take on the whole American gratitude for our military is sure to step on a few toes here so I will apologize now. Everyone here has tough skin and has proven they are open to varied opinions. My opinion on this topic is just that, MINE and you can take it or leave it. This country had a heritage of honoring it's veterans when they returned home from the front lines up until the Korean war and it got down right embarassing how our Vietnam veterans were treated when they came home.
Those same hippy war-protesting freakshows who so willingly spit on our returning warriors back in the 60s and early 70s are now the parents and grandparents of the warriors returning home from the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq. How would it look for them to spit on their children and grandchildren? Some of those same people are now politicians and it would not bode well for winning votes to out there treating returning veterans like shit again even though deep down inside they can't stand what we are doing.
BUT most of all the veterans of Vietnam have spearheaded the efforts to ensure no returning veterans ever get treated the way they did. If not for their efforts and the resurgence of national patriotism by a small majority of Americans after 9-11 I think it might be a different story. So I would say that most of the credit goes to the Vietnam veterans for the way returning warriors are welcomed home now.
When I walked through the Dallas airport I had tears in my eyes while walking through the lines of people welcoming me home. The tears came from never being one who enjoyed being in front of a crowd receiving accolades for doing my job so I guess you could say I was embarassed. As I walked I noticed a lot of Vietnam veteran caps worn by men who also had tears in their eyes; I began telling them "welcome home" remembering how they had been treated. I went through this reception both times I came home on R&R leave, as I did 2 tours and I cried both times.
One thing else I noticed about the lines of people who flanked us and showered us us with "welcome homes" was that besides Vietnam veterans there were veterans from other wars, surviving spouses of men who gave their all, surviving spouses of veterans, and a very small amount of non-military connected personnel. While the world looking sees it to be a national effort, I would say it is still primarily a military thing and probably always will be because when it comes right down to it we have an insight that civilians just can't understand because they haven't been there.
For those who are ready to blaze away at your keyboards, please remember that this is MY opinion and at no time did I say I did not appreciate the effort or the reception. I actually felt it was too much for me any way because I am the type who gets embarassed when recognized for doing my job. If I ever got wind I was about to receive a medal I would attempt to have it given to me in the 1SG's office and leave it at that. Anyway...

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Amen! Double O

We need a smiley face of a little man opening up a can of worms...

We have for the very first time that I am aware of a soon to be Sailor in the family! Our oldest grandson made it through the induction / MEPS process 2 days ago and is now in the delayed entry program for the U.S. Navy!!:rock::y
Before he left for the MEPS he was advised there was a very real possibility he would have to wait until January or later to ship out for boot camp. He wasn't too happy when the recruiter told us that but by the time he and I finished discussing all the ways to use the time to his advantage he didn't take the possible delay as badly as he did initially. As luck or fate or whatever you choose to call it would have it Trey doesn't get to ship until February. That gives us plenty os time to prepare him for boot camp both physically and mentally.
I don't yet know the datils of his enlistment because he hasn't called. I'm hoping that I'll be able to snag him later today and bring him to the house so his MiMi and I can celebrate with him and show him how proud we are of him for getting in, even though he chose the Navy.
Just joking about the Navy, I'm glad he chose the Navy. I'm proud of him for enslisting, period.

When I went in February of 1982, I commission in May of 1981, that was nine month I waited to go to the Air Force Pilot training after my commision. In the mean time I got a job milking cows for 8 month, I still remember does day with found memories. Yes, he will be better mentally and physically if he apply him self to an exercise routine. Best of luck Double O

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Originally Posted by Double0757

When I went in February of 1982, I commission in May of 1981, that was nine month I waited to go to the Air Force Pilot training after my commision. In the mean time I got a job milking cows for 8 month, I still remember does day with found memories. Yes, he will be better mentally and physically if he apply him self to an exercise routine. Best of luck Double O

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Thank you and I will be sure to pass it on to Trey. There is a Training Guide on the Navy website for DEPs to use or at least I think it is there for them to use if they are motivated enough to do so. The manual is dated 2009, which is a little dated but how much could the training have evolved in 3 years? I am confident that if he learns what is in that 478-page manual he will be about as mentally prepared for the classes as possible.
I have to be honest, I wish I were going with him. Deep down inside I'm jealous, I think or just excited or both.
What did you fly for the Air Force?

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Originally Posted by OldSoldier

What did you fly for the Air Force?

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I used to pass gas for living! KC-135, Strato tanker. 14 years, got cought on the draw down cuts after the cold war ended. Could not finish my 20, but again, best thing that ever happen. Got a good paying job with UPS and better quality of life. God is Good! Double O

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Originally Posted by OldSoldier

Thank you for your service. Know that when I say that it isn't said as a catch phrase as it is by all those civilians who want be cool or think it's the least they can do to feel good about participating in the defense of this country.

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I want to know, as a civilian who wants to show his appreciation, what then is the proper way to do so?

Please tell Trey that even though I don't know him, that I'm proud of his decision to serve.

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Originally Posted by mackie

Strange that a straight would be considered a weapon. When I was in ( back in the days of iron men and wooden ships ) everyone on board was required to carry a sizeable knife. Just in case you steped into the bight of a line. But then, when I went to school, almost every boy carried a knife there too.
Many times I wish I had stayed in the Navy. My son is in now. A Master Chief with 17 years. You must be very proud of your grandson.

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Mackie, Please convey my appreciation to your son.

There are times when I think I'd have done better to have stayed in. Things got pretty stupid in the USN in '73 after we pulled the plug on Nam. The "peacetime" Navy was not any fun. I was an Aviation Ordnanceman ( AO) and my rate was pretty much closed. They weren't rating anyone for advancement so I was looking at E-5 for a LONG time. Just couldn't see it happening. That along with the insult of the VRB ( variable re-enlistment bonus) that was giving the "tweets" ( Electronic techs ) $10K to ship over for 6 years and then they GENEROUSLY offered us AO's $500! $10K was a chunk of change in '73. $500 was an insult.

I got out.

Here's a pic of one of those knives the sailors carried back in the day.
It's 4 and 3/8ths inches closed. It's a hand full.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95969024/pic%20034.jpg
Maritime law in that era forbade sailors from carrying knives with points. Back then, the ships Master at Arms would inspect the sailor's knives and any knife found with a point would have the point snapped off and the knife would be returned to its owner. These knives were made to comply with the laws of the day.

I wish my Grandpa had gotten me into straights. I started shaving at about 13. I tired buying a straight. My mom and I walked into a knife store (she followed reluctantly), but she wasn't for it. The woman behind the counter was on my moms side. The strange thing is she convinced me a shavette would be better. How unfortunate for me. That shavette turned me away from straights for 11 years, but I am glad to be here now. Thank you for your service, and good luck to your Grandson. I have a Godson that I intend to pass on the glory of straight razor shaving.

It's one of the great disappointments in my life that I was never able to serve. I came from a long line of military men. One grandfather was in the 101st and the other served as a photographer for the Army Air Corps. My dad served in the Air Force in Germany. An uncle retired from the Air Force after 30+ years as a Senior Master Seargent. These among the many in my family.

Unfortunately, by the time I finished high school, I had two bad knees, a bum shoulder and enough concussions that I suffered migraines and slightly diminished vision.Even the Army wouldn't take me at that point.

Sorry for the somewhat rambling, off topic post.:)

Just as the Marines use the shortened version and say “Semper Fi”, those in the Navy who actually know it, use “Non sibi.” Now with that said, it’s also not really an “official” moto, but it works. As for giving advice to the younger generation, I’ve come to maintain that if they have some idea what they want to do when they get out, then they need to find out which service teaches that particular field to everyone else and that’s where they go. As an example, if you want to be a civilian first responder as a career, then Air Force Pararescue. I’ve got a lot of respect for those guys and a lot of it for personal first-hand reasons. I did 10 as a Navy Deep Diver, ’84 to ’94. Best compliment I ever got was when a Seal called us a bunch of crazy “M. F-ers”.
Now to stir the pot…
The odd ball to this logic is that the Army trains all of it’s own people, but that’s cuz they do things their own way… probably mostly cuz they can’t really comprehend how it’s supposed to be done. And somebody mentioned the Air Force resort trips being 90 days… that’s because they can’t be away from Mommy for longer than that.

The drawdown years were crazy, to say the least. I saw a lot of good men go voluntarily, a few good men get caught up in the regs and craziness who had their careers cut out from under them and unfortunately I saw way too many boot-lickers survive the cuts and end up in the senior ranks years later. I have a document prepared by one such person who became the division CSM for the 101st during my 1st tour in Iraq; the document reads like something written in chinese then run through a cheap computer translation program. Anyone who has ever actually read stereo manuals or clock radio manuals is familiar with the type of language. ANYWAY... he and far too many of the drawdown survivors made it to the top and virtually destroyed the NCO corps in the Army. It has taken many years to rebuild the corps of Noncommissioned Officers and get rid of the political correctness.
Sorry you got caught up in the cuts. It sounds like you aren't too unhappy about it though. I am happy for you that God took care of you. I knew too many that struggled for too long afterward when the rug got yanked out from under them.
I had a cousin who navigated BUFFs for the Air Force 15 years when he got the boot.
One of the worst rides I ever had was in a C-130 during a refueling. The draft behind a KC-135 inside a C-130 is a very hostile ride to say the least.

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Originally Posted by roughkype

I want to know, as a civilian who wants to show his appreciation, what then is the proper way to do so?

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Try to say it with feeling. I have had it said to me so many times I cannot count and out of the hundreds of times I have heard it I can always tell when it comes from a fellow veteran or someone who is family-connected to the military. There is a different tone in the voice, I guess if I had to put a word on it I would have to say it is said with honesty or compassion.
So many people say it just in passing because they may not know what else to say or because it is the phrase of the day. I hope I did not offend anyone with my statement, that was not my intent.
When I meet a Vietnam or Korean war veteran and only after we have engaged in a short conversation I make it a point to tell him welcome home. I don't use the thank you for your service phrase because for me it has become another over phrase. When I tell those fellow combat veterans welcome I do so with compassion in my voice so I hope they know it comes from the heart. To date I have yet to have my expression of thanks rejected by any of them, not even the warriors in the Dallas airport who were trying to welcome me home for doing my job.
I guess I don't have a simple answer to your question except to show compassion and honesty when expressing thanks. I have found after speaking with many of my fellow returning veterans that they feel the same way; we appreciate the sentiment but we can also tell when it is genuine and not. And believe it or not there are some of us who get embarassed by the attention, for me it was my upbringing for others it comes from a feeling of not completing the job yet.
I have rambled again. I apologize.

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Originally Posted by Theseus

It's one of the great disappointments in my life that I was never able to serve. I came from a long line of military men. One grandfather was in the 101st and the other served as a photographer for the Army Air Corps. My dad served in the Air Force in Germany. An uncle retired from the Air Force after 30+ years as a Senior Master Seargent. These among the many in my family.

Unfortunately, by the time I finished high school, I had two bad knees, a bum shoulder and enough concussions that I suffered migraines and slightly diminished vision.Even the Army wouldn't take me at that point.

Sorry for the somewhat rambling, off topic post.:)

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Please do not be disappointed, your family did enough. God had/has other plans for you. I have met many men who for whatever reason were denied the opportunity to serve our country and tended to beat themselves up for it, unnecessarily.
On the flip side of that coin are the young men who scoff at the meer notion of serving our country yet feel they have the right to ridicule the military. When I was younger I got in many arguments with many hypocrites who thought they had the right to complain about my country but were not man enough to raise their right hand and put on a uniform.
It sounds like you might have a rather low opinion of the quality of people the Army will take compared to the other branches. :)

Thank you for clarifying. My father served at the end of WWII, but just as a clerk in Chicago and Seattle, so I have no family connection and the social world of the military and of military families is a mystery to me. I see how a catch phrase would feel empty, and hope the earnestness of my thanks always carries.

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Originally Posted by Toymkr

Just as the Marines use the shortened version and say “Semper Fi”, those in the Navy who actually know it, use “Non sibi.” Now with that said, it’s also not really an “official” moto, but it works. As for giving advice to the younger generation, I’ve come to maintain that if they have some idea what they want to do when they get out, then they need to find out which service teaches that particular field to everyone else and that’s where they go. As an example, if you want to be a civilian first responder as a career, then Air Force Pararescue. I’ve got a lot of respect for those guys and a lot of it for personal first-hand reasons. I did 10 as a Navy Deep Diver, ’84 to ’94. Best compliment I ever got was when a Seal called us a bunch of crazy “M. F-ers”.
Now to stir the pot…
The odd ball to this logic is that the Army trains all of it’s own people, but that’s cuz they do things their own way… probably mostly cuz they can’t really comprehend how it’s supposed to be done. And somebody mentioned the Air Force resort trips being 90 days… that’s because they can’t be away from Mommy for longer than that.

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After doing some research I discovered the unofficial motto of the Navy. I must say that I am impressed; Not self but country. In a way it goes well with the Marine Corps' Semper Fi.
When I am privileged enough to speak with young people and offer advice when they are looking at the military I always spend time trying get to know the person before making any type of recommendation. When I was in the Corps I used to always recommend the Corps to anyone I thought would make a good Marine. Now that I am older and I hope wiser, I try to make recommendations that will benefit the person first then the military. The recommendations go along your lines of thought; people who are compassionate about aircraft and travel would be recommended toward the Navy, Highspeed adventurous individuals who want to save lives would be recommended toward the PJ service; both of those recommendations would also have to be made to people who I thought had the mental capacity to complete the training. Young men who nothing more than to serve the country and who are intelligent with that unspoken quality only found in US Marines are directed toward the Marine Corps. Without breaking my elbow, I have been fairly successful at guiding young people toward a branch of service over the last 30 years, most went on to have successful careers even if it was only one hitch.
I think the Army trains it's own people because it makes it easier to introduce changes and it is by far cheaper to use soldiers than to maintain the often times overpaid civilian employees who think they are far more valuable than they truly are. Sorry if I have stepped on toes but I have seen too many people in uniform replaced by civilians and it did nothing but cause problems, especially in time of war. For those who are concerned about the cost of the current wars, you can thank your politicians who chose to replace soldiers with civilians in many jobs and pay them 10 to 20 times as much for the same job! I won't get on that soapbox because it will only drive up my blood pressure and piss off many people.
I met a few good civilian instructors throughout my career but by far the best instructors were ALWAYS men in uniform.
I also addressed the Air Force "short tours" and what they call "long tours". I used to laugh at my older brother, the Chief Master Sergeant when we discussed overseas tours. He once complained about having to do a "long tour" of 120 in Kuwait. I was once told by another retired chief who got quite animated when several of us were giving him the business about Air Force overseas "tours", he said they are kept short because they don't want to burn out their people to keep retention high and it also had something to do with their low numbers of personnel.
Again, no toes meant to be stepped on. All inter-service jousting should be able to be dished out and taken in kind; if you can't take it, don't dish it out. Worms are always good for fishing.

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Originally Posted by roughkype

Thank you for clarifying. My father served at the end of WWII, but just as a clerk in Chicago and Seattle, so I have no family connection and the social world of the military and of military families is a mystery to me. I see how a catch phrase would feel empty, and hope the earnestness of my thanks always carries.

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Of course you are family-connected. Your father served, which makes you conected. He must have shared some stories with you.
As far as what is job was, it is irrelevant, he served. Be glad he didn't have to deal with combat and the lifelong healing process for those who do the actual fighting.
When people get true insight about the military some are shocked to discover that les than 25% of the armed forces actually engage the enemy in direct combat while the remainder serve in some sort of support role. Without those support personnel those of us in combat arms could not do our jobs. My numbers may not be completely accurate for the current wars, they were they numbers I found in books over the years but they sure feel right from what I saw in Iraq.
I would gladly shake your hand if we ever met in person. From what you have stated here, I doubt you have to worry about anyone thinking your expressions of gratitude are anything less than genuine. Thank you.