Newbie needs assistance with TI vendor correspondence and decision

This week I purchased what I thought would be my second straight razor, but I am uncertain at this point. This is the email reply that I received from the vendor:

“Thank you very much for your purchase. We have 2 units of the razors you ordered in stock. Both, while very nice, have very small imperfections. The blade aligns with the scale; however, not perfectly in the middle up to a fraction of a millimetre. Also, the ground, while excellent is not perfectly even on each side of the blade. Please let us know if you would like to ship you one of these razors or if you would like to cancel the order.”

I let him know that I appreciated his honesty and attention to detail and inquired about the same style of razor with the black horn scales instead of the ebony, which I had initially ordered. This is his reply:

“We can provide a discount for the razor with horn scales. However, we won't be able to open and check the available razors. Many of our customers purchase these items with the expectation of them being un-opened, the same condition they leave the factory and we cannot afford to open more items.

All TI razors will have a slight defect, one way or the other; it's the nature of the product.

If you would like to take the chance at a horn scaled razor, we can offer a discount. However, the normal return terms and conditions will apply in this case:
Also, please keep in mind that horn is much softer material and misalignments are more common with these type of scales, as compared with wood scales.”

My questions are:

Is it true that “All TI razors will have a slight defect, one way or the other; it's the nature of the product.”?

If that is the case, should I stick with the ebony scaled razor, which I prefer?

Do vendors that specialize in these products typically check alignment, etc. or does the purchaser typically “take the chance” as suggested here?

Would someone that is familiar with TI and has experience with purchasing them pass on this or follow through with the order?*

Thank you for your help.

No mass produced razor will be perfect. Some things will be off at least a tad. This would bother some but not bother others. Its the custom razors where the makers really take the time to obtain perfection.

Having said this TI has a reputation for fantastic blades but QC can be a real issue. They have improved over the last few years however I have several TIs and some are really great and some have been embarrassing in the issues they have. To me a slight misalignment in the scales is no issue as long as it is really slight and a not perfectly straight bevel is no issue to me as long as it a purely cosmetic thing and is really slight. For a discount it might be a real bargain.

It's up to you and your standards.

like spendur said, no mass produced item will be perfect every single time. However, it doesn't sound like they hone the razors themselves if they don't open any to check them, unless they do it only after one is paid for. I say go for it, and if they are mis-ground that it's going to cause a problem w/ honing later, send it back. If the blade doesn't sit perfect in the scales, you can always adjust that yourself so no biggie there, you'll have to at some point anyway.

I wonder why they have two razors of the same type in open boxes but will not open any others? You would think they would have none in open boxes if their customers wanted sealed boxes. Just saying. I would generally agree that most mass produced items are not 100% perfect and most will have minor flaws.

Bob

What is TI?

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Originally Posted by ccase39

What is TI?

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Thiers Issard - a French razor maker

I've got quite a few of them. I have a 7/8 with horn scales that had a normal and correct bevel on one side and a double bevel on the other. A lot of elbow grease to correct that but it is a great shaver and a favorite. Another was one of the 'historic series' Rasapur was carrying a few years ago, with a worked spine and horn scales. Perfect except the scales are shorter on the pile side by an 1/8". Not misaligned at the pin, just shorter. Also a good shaver. I've learned to live with these imperfections as the performance of the razor makes up for it.

I bought a NOS Spartacus Dreadnought with bone scales. The scales are warped at the very bottom of the wedge so that you can see light between them. I tried to tighten them and cracked them at the wedge on one side. A stable crack but a crack nonetheless and due to their lack of QC as much as to my heavy handedness. I have other TIs that have no issues. As the French say ...... "C'est la vie." :D

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Originally Posted by BobH

I wonder why they have two razors of the same type in open boxes but will not open any others? You would think they would have none in open boxes if their customers wanted sealed boxes. Just saying. I would generally agree that most mass produced items are not 100% perfect and most will have minor flaws.

Bob

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Right on Bob, I would rather buy from vendors that do their "own" QC before selling me something; versus playing phone and mail tag to straighten a problem out after the fact.

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Originally Posted by tiddle

Right on Bob, I would rather buy from vendors that do their "own" QC before selling me something; versus playing phone and mail tag to straighten a problem out after the fact.

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Yea, there is that too for sure too. I would be wondering if the open stock razors were customer returns because of the slight flaws indicated.

Bob

Off hand I can't think of any vendors who personally examine every item they sell before they are shipped out. Most simply wouldn't have the time to do that. Unless it's a razor and you are specifically getting it honed by the vendor. In that case it should be examined but I'm not sure it really is.

Maybe some of our vendors will speak up as to their policy.

Thank you all for your helpful advice. I was really set on this particular razor, but due to the less than adequate customer service and questionable uneven blade grind, I am passing on it.

The email that I sent to the vendor last night: Thank you for your reply and the point regarding horn scales. I appreciate that you have taken the time to correspond with me. If you are able to give me the discount, the misalignment is only slight, and the uneven ground is only cosmetic (and does not appear that it will pose a problem when honing later), I'll take the razor with ebony scales.

The vendor wrote back telling me, “We think that you'll have a better shopping experience for you'll find a local supplier, that allows walk-in, in your area.”

I was treated as a problematic customer, when I had already purchased the razor and had only asked a few questions pertaining to what he thought noteworthy enough to offer me a refund. I called this vendor last week to ask if they offer any professional sharpening services or if the straight razors only come factory sharp. I’m sure that he has been asked this several times, but I had never had any communication with him prior to this, and he started yelling at me from a speaker phone without masking his irritation. After the phone call, I took a few days to determine whether I wanted the razor enough to overlook the call. I ordered the razor online and you know the rest of the story.

When I Google search Thiers-Issard, this Canadian vendor is the one that usually comes up first. If anyone has any suggestions for other TI vendors, please let me know. I’m looking for what I guess would be considered a mid-range TI (preferably one with wood scales).

Thank you again, everyone.

Christopher

Classic shaving has a few.

And you can't go wrong with rasur pur either. Ships from Germany but I've had nothing but great service from them.

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Originally Posted by Punky7

Thank you all for your helpful advice. I was really set on this particular razor, but due to the less than adequate customer service and questionable uneven blade grind, I am passing on it.

The email that I sent to the vendor last night: Thank you for your reply and the point regarding horn scales. I appreciate that you have taken the time to correspond with me. If you are able to give me the discount, the misalignment is only slight, and the uneven ground is only cosmetic (and does not appear that it will pose a problem when honing later), I'll take the razor with ebony scales.

The vendor wrote back telling me, “We think that you'll have a better shopping experience for you'll find a local supplier, that allows walk-in, in your area.”

I was treated as a problematic customer, when I had already purchased the razor and had only asked a few questions pertaining to what he thought noteworthy enough to offer me a refund. I called this vendor last week to ask if they offer any professional sharpening services or if the straight razors only come factory sharp. I’m sure that he has been asked this several times, but I had never had any communication with him prior to this, and he started yelling at me from a speaker phone without masking his irritation. After the phone call, I took a few days to determine whether I wanted the razor enough to overlook the call. I ordered the razor online and you know the rest of the story.

When I Google search Thiers-Issard, this Canadian vendor is the one that usually comes up first. If anyone has any suggestions for other TI vendors, please let me know. I’m looking for what I guess would be considered a mid-range TI (preferably one with wood scales).

Thank you again, everyone.

Christopher

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Vintage Blades LLC::Thiers-Issard Straight Razors
I can strongly recommend this site. I just bought a new razor from them and am very happy. The customer service is excellent. I mean beyond excellent imo and they have speedy shipping. All razors are professionally honed and they encourage you to ask any questions you may have and are more than happy to answer.

+1 for Vintage Blades. That's where I got my initial set up. Jim gave me an hour of his time talking me thru it all. And all his blades go thru Lynn for honing.

TI, you love or you hate.
I own some TI and have seen some more. Most have some geometry issue in the bevel or in the spine. I've got the idea that it's not QC but it's related to the specific heat treatment they use.
That same heat treatment that makes their steel very special, different from all others.
Personally I'm on the love side, though sometimes I curse them while honing.

I am currently a big fan of TI, I find they are really designed to be good daily shavers. I also like that old world design and the leather pouches they come with. Very practical! I have heard of some issues with TI, and I myself noted an issue with a higher end model. The best thing to do in my view is to purchase from a vendor that carries a regular supply of TI's and that can professionally hone. This way you are less likely to receive a problematic razor.

Thank you all for the suggestions. Also, thank you for helping to turn a disappointing circumstance into something positive. I just ordered a TI from Vintage Blades LLC. It's a Spartacus 6/8", half ground. Nothing too fancy, but I'm excited nonetheless. I'm sure that this razor is more suitable for a newbie than the 7/8" Spanish point that I felt that "I just had to have". Someday!

One day you can have it. Ti also does custom orders so you can have anything you want;)

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Originally Posted by basil

One day you can have it. Ti also does custom orders so you can have anything you want;)

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Basil, how do you place a custom order with TI? They don't have a company website as far as I can tell do you have a contact?

You might want to ask what ever vendor you go with to send a couple pictures of the actual razor before you buy it so you can make up your mind up front.

Happy Holidays,

Lynn

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Originally Posted by Badgister

Basil, how do you place a custom order with TI? They don't have a company website as far as I can tell do you have a contact?

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TI is owned or owns (not sure which) Sabatier, you can find their website and send email inquiry about customized TI.

could this be the official website:


Thiers Issard

I placed my order through rasur pur. Told them what I wanted and they got it made.

I'm sure any ti vendor can contact them with the order for you.

Interesting! I have been looking to purchase a grelot like TI quarter hollow blade. Did you have to pay import duties when ordering from Rasurpur to Canada?

I didn't have to. But sometimes you get lucky. Just like when ordering from the states.