Base line sharpness

Hi all,

About 35 shaves in, and slowly getting a grasp of how much I don't know :-), especially how to get a consistently sharp and comfortable shave. Mine seem to be very ad hoc around how sharp the razor feels, and I sort of realise this could be anything from lather, glycerin level, technique, stropping, dulling the razor etc, etc..

So one question I have to try and rule out some of the variables, is could I use my Dovo Shavette as a baseline for how sharp my Straight's should/could be, with all others things consistent? Or is it simply just easier (more comfortable, smoother, far less pulling) to shave with the smaller lighter shavettes, which is what I'm finding?

thanks in advance..

Kevin

Depending somewhat upon the blade you are using in the Shavette, it is likely to be at least as sharp, if not sharper, than most straight razors even those that are well-honed. You could use that as a baseline for sharpness, especially if you are using a Feather blade. A well-honed straight razor should not be very far off that baseline however.

I wish my SR can be as sharp as my disposable Straight razor. I am practicing honing and coming along well. I might have to send out a blade and see how it really is supposed to be.

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Originally Posted by ace

Depending somewhat upon the blade you are using in the Shavette, it is likely to be at least as sharp, if not sharper, than most straight razors even those that are well-honed. You could use that as a baseline for sharpness, especially if you are using a Feather blade. A well-honed straight razor should not be very far off that baseline however.

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Thanks Ace - I'm using the Dovo longer single blade in the Shavette, which now with over a month of use, is certainly less sharp than when I bought it new. Despite this, it is much easier and more comfortable in cutting, than my straights. I'll revisit my stropping technique and see if it improves the Straight.

cheers Kev

Remember that your DE blades are machine-made and can be made to exacting tolerances. I have a Shavette and a Feather SS, and in both cases the blades are clearly, although just incrementally, sharper than my straights. I've had straights honed by the best, although I now hone my own, and while the replaceable blade straights are sharper, the real straights are just a tad off that level and still produce fine shaves. I think your DE blades can function as a baseline for sharpness, but as a 'standard' of sharpness that may be too high.

Where did you get straight from?

Was it honed by a pro at some point?

Did it shave nice when you first got it?

A straight should not tug & outcome should be the same as a DE ie a close shave so can't see how one is actually sharper than the other.
Would suggest some of the previously mentioned points may be at play eg stropping or honing, angle, lather etc...

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Originally Posted by Castel33

Where did you get straight from?
(K) Mensbiz on-line in OZ, but picked it up personally.

Was it honed by a pro at some point?
(K) Yes, one of the forum members, recently.

Did it shave nice when you first got it?

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(K) Reasonably, but was pulling a bit, hence got it honed just before Xmas. The first few shaves after the honing were nice, but seems to have reverted back to pre honing sharpness. I'm checking my stropping technique to see if that's the culprit.

cheers, K

Stropping is often the culprit with those symptoms. If I honed it please send it back & will touch up F.O.C.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

A straight should not tug & outcome should be the same as a DE ie a close shave so can't see how one is actually sharper than the other.
Would suggest some of the previously mentioned points may be at play eg stropping or honing, angle, lather etc...

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Thanks onimaru55,
I think I can rule out the prep, as I try both the St8 and the shavette, with the same shave and lathering (ie shave half an area (under nose, chin, cheek etc), put the St8 down, and continue with the Shavette - big difference).

Angle, I think is about the same in that I tend to start flattish on the spine and raise very slightly until I get the best cut, which is usually 1 or 2 spine widths. Of course for subsequent passes, I flatten even more.

The difference b/w the two shavers is really pronounced when doing the neck XTG from adams apple to chin. The Shavette glides up, cuts well and leaves a smooth skin finish and I feel very confident performing the pass, but with the St8, it feels like it's scraping the hairs off, is uncomfortable, leaves some redness immediately after and is not that smooth after the pass.

I'm checking my stropping technique to see if that's the culprit. Before each shave, I do approx 20 passes on the cotton side, and 40-50 on the leather side of a Dovo 2 inch hanging strop, holding the strop firm and flat but not too tight, doing the X pattern and only the weight of the blade up and back.

Cheers, K

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Originally Posted by KCC088

Angle, I think is about the same in that I tend to start flattish on the spine and raise very slightly until I get the best cut, which is usually 1 or 2 spine widths. Of course for subsequent passes, I flatten even more.

The difference b/w the two shavers is really pronounced when doing the neck XTG from adams apple to chin. The Shavette glides up, cuts well and leaves a smooth skin finish and I feel very confident performing the pass, but with the St8, it feels like it's scraping the hairs off, is uncomfortable, leaves some redness immediately after and is not that smooth after the pass.

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If you use a really flat approach sometimes even with spine contact & there is discomfort I think something is possibly wrong with the edge.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Stropping is often the culprit with those symptoms. If I honed it please send it back & will touch up F.O.C.

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Thanks for your kind offer, onimaru55, no, it wasn't you that honed it, and as mentioned before, it was great after the honing for a little while (so was honed very well), which sort of points to my own stropping :-(

cheers,
K

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Originally Posted by KCC088

I'm checking my stropping technique to see if that's the culprit. Before each shave, I do approx 20 passes on the cotton side, and 40-50 on the leather side of a Dovo 2 inch hanging strop, holding the strop firm and flat but not too tight, doing the X pattern and only the weight of the blade up and back.

Cheers, K

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You may want to up your lap counts some. The dovo/jemico strops tend to be on the shorter side for strops nowadays. So if your following what you are seeing on the forum you probably are not getting the blade on the strop as often as others here.

I have a jemico leather strop and I do 80 laps before a shave and 60-80 after a shave so really I am getting about 140-160 laps before a shave.

I love my jemico and wouldn't trade it for anything else just takes some more laps

The jemico and dovo strops are made by the same company and are the same strops just branded differently.

No probs. Stropping is a bit of a challenge at first.
My offer holds even tho i didn't hone it but maybe whoever did it will help you out too. Doesn't sound like a big job.

Alot of times when I noticed something I didn't like during the shave it usually happened when I didn't stretch the skin enough or if I was using too much pressure.

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Originally Posted by JSmith1983

Alot of times when I noticed something I didn't like during the shave it usually happened when I didn't stretch the skin enough or if I was using too much pressure.

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Hi JSmith1983 - that's a thought, as the Shavette is ultra light and I may (unconsciously) be using very little pressure compared to the heavier St8. I'll check during tomorrow's shave. Many thanks!

After responding to this post I decided to shave and wouldn't you know I was leaving the skin loose and pressing pretty hard. You would think that I would know better especially after posting about doing exactly that. :banghead:

Why do we use SR if the disposable is going to be sharper? Maybe I just have not had a properly honed blade yet :(

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Originally Posted by JulioFundora

Why do we use SR if the disposable is going to be sharper? Maybe I just have not had a properly honed blade yet :(

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1/ A disposable is not necessarily sharper.
2/ You don't have to throw away a SR after a few uses. :)

Pretty likely our not really stropping. Don't baby it. If you fail to use any pressure at all you're at the whim of the perfection of your technique alone.

A properly stropped edge should provide consistently good or bad shaves, based on honing or technique. Honing, prep, and technique would produce consistent issues, too, either good or bad, I think.

If I have a well-honed blade that shaves well, and I strop it correctly and do enough passes, the blade stays sharp (shave ready) for a month at least. Maybe that is because I always strop 100 laps minimum and do use some pressure (with proper technique) while doing it. I still say that a SR won't be quite as sharp as a DE blade, and my Feather SS proves that to me every time I use it. I stay with SRs, though, because the difference in the shave is minimal (both methods give great shaves) and the SR blades are just more fun to use.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Pretty likely our not really stropping. Don't baby it. If you fail to use any pressure at all you're at the whim of the perfection of your technique alone.

A properly stropped edge should provide consistently good or bad shaves, based on honing or technique. Honing, prep, and technique would produce consistent issues, too, either good or bad, I think.

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I've been using a (very) small amount of pressure, and after this, using hardly any at all, just the weight of the blade. Haven't tried using more pressure (obviously without going silly), but will give it a go, slowly but more firmly. Thanks for the tip :-)

My experience has been that I can use more pressure while stropping than I do when honing. I use little pressure when honing, but stropping results have been very good for me when I bear down just a little bit in my stropping. This is safe only when you have first established that your stropping technique is flawless. Adding pressure to a stropping flaw can cause problems.

You are supposed to use only enough pressure to feel some draw*. That is clearly more than none. Here is a good read on the topic.


* 1961 Barbers Manual in the site library

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...t_-_Honing.pdf

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

You are supposed to use only enough pressure to feel some draw*. That is clearly more than none. Here is a good read on the topic.


* 1961 Barbers Manual in the site library

File:Help Files Permanent Archive Barbering Textbooks 1961 Barbering Text - Honing.pdf - Straight Razor Place Wiki

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Thanks AFDavis11, this and your earlier response re pressure, nailed the problem!

Shaved this morning, and put some pressure (probably a little more than necessary, but carefully, too) on the stropping, with 30 on canvas and 50-60 on leather. The difference was amazing. The Sr8t shaved just about as well as the Shavette (VERY little difference) and was smooth and very comfortable, similar to when it first came back from honing. So, as you suggested, looks like I wasn't actually stropping the razor with my 'too light' touch, and so it was becoming more and more dull.

Thanks again - yahoo..
Kevin

You are very welcome. My work is done here. ;)