Thread: Day 51

On Nov. 6th I posted my first SRP thread (entitled "Day One") and received a ton of great advice. Since then I've tried to follow the guidance to the T as well as that posted in other threads (especially "Discouraged"). I've also been practicing daily (shaving) and honing on the 4k/8k a bit on the weekends. Lastly, I bought another SR on ebay (Bonsa Soligen 5/8, which I can't tell if it's carbon or stainless) as well as a Lithide barber hone from RedTrader99. In any event, I still can't get the blade right (it doesn't cut chin hair, against the grain is an impossibility and it sticks on neck hair quite a bit).

Here's a summary of where I'm at:

• Neither of my blades pass HHT
  Both cut arm hair pretty easily (the Bonsa does better than my Dovo)
  Both are OK on the thumb nail test (by the Bonsa seems a bit sharper)
  I've hit the Norton 4k/8k consistently and the blades get sharper (but not quite there) and then dull again. Using a Radio Shack microscope it only appeared that I overhoned the Dovo one time and after back honing and working pyramids it's better

Here's my question: I think the Norton may be beyond my present skill set and I seem to be making some steady (although slow) progress by simply test shaving and then hitting my little lithide barber hone for 5-10 passes and then shaving the next day. Can I ever get these "fair" blades really ready if I shave and barber hone them slightly each day or do I have to use the Norton to get there?

In my opinion, barber hones are fine. You shouldn't need it everyday though. Thats odd. You should be able to get the razor sharper.

I would suggest that getting the razor to pass the hanging hair test off of 4K is likely for most guys. I would work the blade on 4K a little more then work towards smoothing that bevel instead of trying to get a sharp razor off 8K. Mostly its just for smoothing (the 8k).

I would try lapping the 8k again. Its smooth right, like glass? Then use a touch of pressure and do some work on the 8K, then after that move to light touches. When you use a microscope do you get the edge to a point where it looks dark and smooth? Since the bevel is off angled it should look smooth looking directly at it with the microscope.

A lithide is a spotty barber hone, not one of my favorites. I'd suggest a different one. The key to a barber hone is that its about 7k. For effective honing on 8K I think you need to start with a little pressure then lighten it. They are just really smooth in comparison. You can't skip the pressure step though, it smooths the bevel a little.

MTS,

Have you watched Lynn's DVD yet? I got it about a month ago, and just watching Lynn hone and copying his approach improved my honing significantly.

I think Alan's on the right track when he mentions getting the razor HHT sharp off the 4K. If it's not getting sharp enough there, when you go to the 8K you'll find that you get an edge that's really sharp but delicate. One or two more strokes will take it to dull again.

Try doing 10 laps on the 4K with some pressure, then do 10 more with just enough pressure to keep the razor flat. Then do a HHT. If it doesn't catch and cut the hair along most of the blade, repeat the 20 laps. Test.

If you're lucky enough to have hair that works for the hanging hair test, it can really help shorten the time it takes you to learn. It gives you feedback without having to whip up lather...

Could you describe your honing for us in more detail? I found that posture makes a big difference. I was honing standing up, going side to side. Lynn hones sitting down, with the stone facing N-S. He holds his elbow up and pulls the razor toward himself, then pushes it away. This simple change made a huge difference for me.

Good luck,
Josh

Happy new year guys and thank you for taking the time to read my post. I know I should use the Norton, my only apprehension was that I spent a lot of time on it (lapping it too) and couldn't quite get the blade right (pilot error I know). I actually feel that the bevel has gotten smaller over time.

The barber hone is much slower cutting (and I feel like I can keep the blade really flat) so I thought for a novice that I could improve the blade slightly each day and shave test until the magical day came when the blade was perfect. Should I try the Kimberly Special from RedTrader that Lynn mentions on the DVD instead of the lithide?

Regarding my technique, I use the techniques that Lynn has in his DVD. Hone is N-S. After my first few (unsuccessful) pyramids I made a strange modification:

I noticed that I could visually tell if the razor was flat on the hone when the blade was coming towards me (versus when it moves away from me). So I did a pass towards me (handle in my right hand), then rotated the stone and did a pass towards me (handle in my left hand) and so on. In my mind I felt like I was getting at the same objective (hitting both sides of the SR and not honing only in one direction on the stone). I felt that my technique improved because I could tell the blade was always flat.

AFDavis11 - I've searched for a number of your posts and have found them extremely helpful (especially your response to "Discouraged" which I printed and followed carefully - including marking off the Norton and only using 2/3 of it at the end). I will try the advice in this post and let you know.

Now that I have two SRs I think I'm going to send one of them out to Lynn to get it hone right so I know what "right" is.

Still loving this stuff

MTS,

That's an unusual approach to using the Norton, but it seems to have some advantages. If you're confident that you have enough control with your off hand, I say go for it.

The barber hone is fine, but since it's a slow cutter if your razor is dull it will take a long time to get it sharp. Don't feel like you're "cheating" by not using the Norton. The Norton works for a lot of us, but it's great to develop skills on a number of different stones. You can experiment that way.

You might try working your razor on the 4K for a while until it passes some kind of sharpness test, then use the barber hone for a while to finish the edge. The lithide is supposed to be a fine finishing hone, somewhere between 8K and 10K. It's more for polishing a sharp edge than establishing sharpness.

Sending the Dovo to Lynn is a great idea. I'd be willing to hone it for free for you, but Lynn's edge will definitely be better. PM me if you're interested.

Good luck,
Josh

Ahhh my apologies,

Yea that approach might be good. I would consider moving to the Med grit Kimberly. This approach may be slow though. You might be moving to the hone/test shave pyramid early. If your patient though thats good. Just remember that you can't let yourself get sloppy with this approach. Make sure everytime you sit at the hone you have your senses tuned up to feel the razor on the stone.

The other cool thing about getting a razor honed by Lynn is that once honed, its soooo much easier to hone from that day forward, forever. The spine and bevel are set for you. Lynn will take out any irregularities and spine offsets that you can't even see.

Josh - thank you for your kind offer to hone my razor, I really do appreciate it. I would however feel like a burdon and that's the last thing I want to do.

Thanks again,
Mark

Choosing not to send a blade is simply a choice, nothing to concern yourself with, but a burden you would not be, ever.

You'd be amazed at how much fun it is to hone a razor when you know what your doing. I just had a razor sent to me for honing and the shipping both ways will cost under $1.70. Thats a pretty good deal.

Looking back, I wish I had taken more advantage of these offers. Not so much to get a blade honed (although that would have been really helpful) but as much for the ability to compare the work and learn.

I agree with Alan. It's not a burden at all. (Unless the razor is all rusted and you have to rebuild the bevel. Then we never talk to you again. )

The offer stands if you change your mind.

Josh

I have come to enjoy honing (much more so than cleaning ebay specials )

However, some razors just laugh at you. If you get one of these as your first razor honing experience you can get frustrated, I guess. So I also think you should send a blade to be sharpened. Then buy some cheap and old 5/8 ebay piece with shot scales (5/8 and shot scales - just so that you get it for $10 or so) to practice, best if it's by a reputed manufacturer to make sure the steel is good though

Cheers
Ivo