Newbie ready to go!

Hello all! I got my 4k/8k stones in the mail today, and I sat down for some quality time with my Dovo Astrale. I soaked the stones in the sink for 15 minutes, then went to work on the 4k side. I had previously done 20 minutes worth of passes on my dad's knife hone. I know my razor is dull and uneven, but curiosity got the better of me and I wanted a try at the norton.

I'm going to lap the norton tomorrow with some 400/1000 grit sandpaper, then tape the edge and do some circles on the 1000 grit to get a better base upon which to sharpen.

I was curious about the honing pattern though. My norton is wide enough to accomodate the full width of my blade. Is it still wise to use the X pattern? It seems like honing back and forth without moving laterally would prevent wearing away the middle of the blade.

Is it alright to place my finger on the middle of the heel when honing? Keeping light pressure on the shank, I felt like the heel was getting more pressure than the point. With my pointer finger on the middle of the spine, the pass felt more even and without any rocking motion.

I'll get one of those radioshack microscopes tomorrow and see what the status of my blade's edge is. Thanks everyone!

Welcome aboard,
If you've already given the blade 20min of rough lovin' I wouldn't do any circular honing on the 1k. I might just do like 10 x-pattern passes to even out the bevel.
There are proponents of both systems (heel leading straight across and x-pattern) but I believe that x gives me more control.
I hone 1-handed and that gives me more control as well. I won't tell you it's the only way that works but it's the only way I'd personally recommend.
Enjoy the experience!

P.S. You may want to indicate your location in the user CP and your name in the signature (just a suggestion, not a compulsion) :)

Thank you Ilija, I appreciate the fast reply! I thought of another question in the interim: what steps are required to dry out the hone? I'm standing it on its side in the bathroom to air dry, but I'm not sure what will happen with regard to mold.

I just leave it on a dish drying rack overnight and then I keep it on a dry rag until I need to hone with it again. IE, no special steps need to be taken.

Some people leave it in a pitcher with a lid inside of purified water so it's always ready to go. Don't forget to flatten the stone before any major honing though.

I believe they also pour a little bleach in there (really low doses) to prevent mold from forming, but those are usually the ones who hone often and want to have their Norton ready on short notice.

I spent a good 30 minutes lapping my 4k/8k on 600 grit paper. I used a framed picture for the plate glass, which worked out pretty well. I did a few pyramids on the combo, and noticed that the point to middle were sharp, but the heel wasn't. I held the razor up to the light, and noticed that the edge was wider (looking down on the flat blade) in the sharp regions and very narrow in the dull regions.

I took this to mean that I needed to move back up to a lower grit to reshape the bevel. I did 50 passes on each side with the 600 grit sandpaper (with the slurry from the 4k lap pass) until each side of the blade had a nice uniform edge width all the way across. I attribute this to a poor taping job that I did on my first attempt at shaving, combined with an uneven hone.

I did an aggressive pyramid (heavy on the 4k passes) to get the blade back to acceptable sharpness, then did a few tests on the hairs on the back of my hand. I was able to cut through those hairs fairly easily, but only when lubricated with water.

I did a standard 9-step pyramid and this time saw a bit of an improvement when wet. I decided I would try a test shave and see what would happen.

I lathered a small section of my cheek just below my ear and did a few short strokes. It removed the hair, but it wasn't smooth like it should be. I did strop before use, 20 laps on the cloth side (yellow paste) and 20 on the leather (no paste).

I noticed that during honing, the 4K side was getting pretty uniformly gray/black from the metal I was removing, but the 8K side was removing more metal in the center of the blade which suggests that it's still not flat. I'm going to work the 8K side for 10 minutes and see if there's any improvement in flatness.

What should my next step be? Any and all advice would be appreciated. Honing is pretty enjoyable and a relaxing way to unwind after a tough day, I wouldn't mind doing some more tonight.

Matt, I think you need to focus on keeping your pressure even. If it's pulling, tugging and/or not cutting hair, it's not there yet.Once you get to the final stages of honing, there will be virtually zero pressure on the hone. Less is more.

Pressure is still a gray area for me. Currently I'm pressing down fairly firmly in the interest of establishing and keeping a uniform edge width across the blade. On my touchup passes with the 8K, I was using just enough to keep it from tipping off the hone. I'm using three fingers across the spine instead of holding the shank, as it allows me to keep my pressure uniform (even if not the right amount).

What kind of pressure ranges should I be looking at? An actual amount is helpful, as "less" or "light" is all relative :confused:

Perhaps you would describe the pressure corresponding with a certain sound across the hone. With heavy pressure, the razor sounds like it is scraping, and with light pressure the razor has a little bit of a ring to it with no irritating scraping sound.

Maximum pressure, used when establishing the bevel: 2lbs
Minimum pressure, used when finishing off the edge: you're barely touching the hone.
I know it's easier for you to use a 2-handed technique, but it will make your control suffer. Fortunately X broke me out of that habit early on and I've been thanking him for that every time I looked at a hone lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arbiter_dev

then did a few tests on the hairs on the back of my hand. I was able to cut through those hairs fairly easily, but only when lubricated with water.

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Your mention of lubrication makes me worried that this means you were testing by running the razor along your arm or hand. If you're going to test with arm hair you should hold the razor off your arm and just touch the blade to the middle of the hairs - no lubrication needed because the razor doesn't touch your arm. And the test gives better results on me if I use the thinner hairs on the underside of my arm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Maximum pressure, used when establishing the bevel: 2lbs
Minimum pressure, used when finishing off the edge: you're barely touching the hone.
I know it's easier for you to use a 2-handed technique, but it will make your control suffer. Fortunately X broke me out of that habit early on and I've been thanking him for that every time I looked at a hone lol.

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I experienced the same thing, but for a razor that is curved (like the one I got from Nelson), the razor needs to roll from heel to toe while honing.
For the moment I control this motion by holding a finger on the toe while honing so that I can roll the pressure evenly.

Doing this one handed is a bit difficult. perhaps you can do it as well, but for that case I still use 2 handed rolling.

Any idea how Lynn does this?

When honing swaybacks, you are supposed to gently transfer the weight from heel to toe as you're going across. You an even do it with straight edges (especially if you're giving them a bit of a smile), but I prefer a straight x.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mparker762

Your mention of lubrication makes me worried that this means you were testing by running the razor along your arm or hand. If you're going to test with arm hair you should hold the razor off your arm and just touch the blade to the middle of the hairs - no lubrication needed because the razor doesn't touch your arm. And the test gives better results on me if I use the thinner hairs on the underside of my arm.

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You worried correctly, I was shaving the backside of my hand/wrist as if it were my face. I'll try it your way after I've re-lapped my 8K and done a few touchup passes with my razor.

I can't manage to shave anything without going close to the root of the hair, since I have very fine hair and it just gets pushed over instead of cut.

I lapped the 8K side of my norton again, then did 20-30 slow passes on that side, starting with some light pressure, and working down until I was barely holding it on the hone. The result? The hairs on my arm just slice off with no effort at all. I'm going to test shave tonight after my shower and see how well I've done.

I stopped doing the 2-hand hone, as it's slow as hell, but I think that for re-cutting my bevel it was invaluable for making everything even and nice. Thanks guys! I'll definitely start a new thread when I encounter some new issues.

Not so fast Matt :mad: You'll also give us a shave-report here :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arbiter_dev

I can't manage to shave anything without going close to the root of the hair, since I have very fine hair and it just gets pushed over instead of cut.

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I have the same issue with my arm hair. It's fine and blond, even though I have thick brown hair and a tough beard. :shrug:

The cutting-half-way-up-the-stalk arm hair test doesn't do anything, even on my honemeister-honed razors. So I'll shave it at the root, but that doesn't tell you the same thing that you'd learn by waving a razor through your arm hair above your skin. I can get a knife to shave my arm hair off my Spyderco Sharpmaker, and I wouldn't use that to sharpen my razors. :eek:

Josh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Maximum pressure, used when establishing the bevel: 2lbs

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I'm not being sarcastic here. I'm genuinely curious. When sharpening, unless one has a sharpening jig for razors that i've not heard of yet, we're all sharpening by hand. So how do we determine 2lbs of pressure versus 1lb or 3 or 5?

I've got a professional level scale hooked up to my pc for printing shipping labels and just the weight of one of my hands alone will tip 2 1/2 lbs. Add the weight of my arm and I'm having to hold my hand up to prevent more than 2lbs of pressure. I'd have to practice quite a bit there to get the "feel" of 2lbs of pressure down pat. What do the guys who don't have professional scales do?

Again, I'm not being sarcastic. If it sounds that way I apologize in advance. I earnestly want to know how I can better determine pressure when sharpening. That would be awesome and I'd likely get done much faster. Which would really help with all these razors coming in.

Glen F

Ofcourse this is not an exact science but a good way to estimate the pressure is to think how much force you would need to lift a quart of milk and use that to press down.
What I am really describing here is a range, more force than a gentle glide but less than a forceful press-down.

The results are in: my first full shave was so-so. I can compare it to a dull double-edge shave. It took off hair and it didn't cut me, but it wasn't the velvet squeegee of lore and myth I've heard described here on the forums :)

I also noticed that a small drop of water that was left on the blade made a pretty lame spot of rust up on the Dovo Astrale plating. I'll be much more careful when putting my razor away next time. What's the best procedure for removing this rust so it doesn't start consuming the rest of the blade?

I'm going to grab a magnifier or a cheap hobby microscope next week so I can see what I'm doing on my hone. In the meantime I'm going to stick with my double-edge with Feather blades, my personal sharpness benchmark :D

I'm considering buying an ebay razor just to learn to hone with, any recommendations? My Dovo was a gift and I'd rather not screw it up with my poor newbie honing.

Matt, just use some Maas, Flitz, Simichrome or CLR Metal Clear on a rag. That will get rid of the water spot quickly.

recommendations on ebay razors,

1. don't buy anything listed in the "don't buy" section HERE (click me)
2. unless it's a bow style blade there should be no curvature in the cutting edge especially no frowning or waving. frowning is the cutting edge looking like a frown when the spine is on top.
3. don't buy one riddled with rust, it might be rusted all the way through.
4. Always ask the seller to send you better pictures via email.
5. Don't be afraid to post a link to the razor on here and ask if it's worth trying to get for a practice razor. :)

hope that helps

Hi, I'm new to these forums so please be patient with me.

I am wondering about flattening, or 'lapping' the stones. I have looked, but cannot find any information regarding this subject.
I have 2 brand new japanese waterstones (King brand), 4,000 & 8,000 grit and am wondering about the steps needed to make these stones 'hone ready'. I am also looking for basic information on the honing process itself.

Any advice in these areas would be appreciated.

Thanking you in advance :)

Martin
(currently living in Greece)

Martin, I'm quite surprised you couldn't find anything as it's a topic that appears here frequently... Here it is, quick and dirty:
1) Soak the stone for 15min
2) Get a granite/marble tile or a glass plate wet and place a sheet of wet, wet/dry sandpaper on it (1000 grit, usually used for auto-body work.
3) Draw a 3x5 grid on the honing surface and start making figure-eights on the sandpaper until the grid disappears. Repeat the step (this should be MUCH quicker).
4) Wash the stone well to remove any sandpaper abrasive that may be on it.