Re honing

Hi,

2 days ago, my 6000 grit whetstone came in and I decided to sharpen my razor. I unfortunately held the razor at too high of an angle when sharpening. I did not rest the razor on it's spine. I got a very bad shave from it. Yesterday, I spent about an hour and a half honing the razor correctly with the spine down. I then shaved with it, but did not get much better of a shave. Now I know I'm only using a 6000 grit stone, but it shouldn't be this bad. My razor won't even pass hht when I FORCE the hair on the blade.

I'm 19 and can't grow a full beard yet. The only thick hair I have is on my chin and under my nose. Now the razor does a descent job at cutting the fine peach fuzz on my cheeks and even the thick hair under my nose where my muwtache would be, but it will not cut the hair under my chin. My gillete razor does a better job.

Now my qustion is this: was an hour of honing not wnough to correct the damage I did?

You will need a minimum 1k to set the bevel on that. I have dmts so I would go to my 325 to remove that amount of metal. You need some hones or lapping film to do what you need to do. Can you do it with a 6K? Yes but it might take hours, I don't know I haven't seen it. Use a permanent black magic marker to blacken the edge. Make 5 laps on your 6k. Whatever is still black is the amount of metal you need to remove. If its a lot, you will need that 1k.

My question: At 19, why are you wasting an hour of youthful virility honing a razor??? Oy!

Best bet is to send it out to a pro (SRP classifieds 'member services')

Yup, unfortunately while you can ruin an edge quickly with a 6000 grit hone, to reset the bevel either requires a lower grit (as Bill3152 suggested, 1000 is pretty much standard). Here's what has probably happened to your edge:
Attachment 125178
That's exaggerated, but you get the picture. Razors have an optimal angle at which the edge will cut hair effectively yet retain their sharpness (on left). A more acute angle will degrade quickly, and a more blunt angle won't cut hair. By raising the spine, you have changed the angle of your bevel like the second pic here. It is too blunt an angle to cut hair. And in order to get your bevel back to a good shaving angle, a lot of steel will have to be removed, i.e. everything outside the red in the third pic. Doing that will take a long, long, long time with a 6000.

+1 to Jimmy's advice of sending it to a pro. It won't cost you much, and will be worth every penny. When I started I shaved with a crappy edge for months and months. It can be a miserable experience and is well worth avoiding.

I would suggest ALOT more research before getting into honing on your own. Gssixgun and Lynn have several great videos out there that will take you through the process step by step. Even then it will take a good while to get the hang of it. It is more about feel than anything else and it takes time to learn how your blade and your stones communicate. It took me over a month of honing several times a day before I finally got consistent good results. Before you try again you are going to need a bevel setter and a finishing stone to get the results you are looking for. Shaving off of a 6k, while it can be done, just won't put as comfortable of an edge on a blade as I would like. As suggested above begin by sending your razor out to a pro for honing so you have a point of reference to what shave ready really is and use it as a point of reference.

Tha ks for all the tips. I think ai'm going to get a Norton 4/6k and I might send my razor to somekne more knowledgable the. I am if I can't fix this on my own.

1 question though. Would putting pressure on the blade speed things up, or would that ruin the new edge I'm creating?

A bit of pressure can be OK when setting bevels, but too much can obviously be a bad thing. One of the main goals when honing is to maintain the integrity of the (intended) geometry - full hollows can "flex" under too much pressure, for example, thus impacting on the intended geometry.

As others have mentioned, lifting the spine would have "narrowed" the bevel, and then dropping the spine back to the hone means there's more steel to remove at and around the change point where it angles in. A 6K might get you there with circles and short strokes and bit of pressure, but it will be slow going and require a lot of patience and consistent technique.

It's not impossible, just tedious. I used to set and even create bevels (for a long time in fact) on the Norton 4K. It was a chore, and you have to be patient. A lower grit stone is a lot faster and easier.

On the bright side though, if you do reset this bevel successfully with a 6K stone your stroke practice and muscle memory will be getting a good workout! :)

James.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xdanisx

Tha ks for all the tips. I think ai'm going to get a Norton 4/6k and I might send my razor to somekne more knowledgable the. I am if I can't fix this on my own.

1 question though. Would putting pressure on the blade speed things up, or would that ruin the new edge I'm creating?

---

Now you're getting deeper into the more nuanced aspects of honing!

*Some* things require more pressure than others, but in general less is more. When you apply pressure to the blade you can deform it, changing the geometry of the thing. It can also lead to excessive and uneven hone wear, which can lead to an uneven and generally wonky bevel, which can require lots of work to fix, etc., and so on... all kinds of nasty things can be done to a razor by applying too much pressure.

EDIT: Jimbo beat me to it!

I'm prolly just going to send it out then. I've honed it for maybe an hour, an jour and a half with slight pressure and it's not shaving well. I used a sharpy to try and see how much I was cutting and it came off after a few strokes. The blade looks fine, it does not look like the second blade in the picture in Cangooner's post, it looks like the first.

I'd say that's a good idea this first time - a pro honer will have good tools and will be able to get the edge shaving nicely. As an added bonus you'll have something to aim for.

I'd suggest that while you are waiting for it to be done you research sharpness tests (thumb pad *not* thumb nail, hanging hair, arm hair wafting, ...) and when you get it back assess it to see what you need to look for when you do your own. Of course, shaving is the final word so don't forget to do that with it too! :)

Good luck.

James.

1 question though. Would putting pressure on the blade speed things up, or would that ruin the new edge I'm creating?[/QUOTE]
I can only speak for myself but I have found that pressure results in deep scratches that take a long time to polish out. I've found that going to a courser stone with very light pressure has given me better results. I've set many bevels on a 325 on some eBay specials. Then 600,1200 dmt Norton 4/8 naniwa 12 . It seems to me that the amount of scratches left on the bevel determine shave smoothness for me anyway. To the more experienced honers(I've only honed about 70 blades ) what's your take on the scratches?

Yes, scratches are the reason for an increasing grit progression, in much the same way restoring uses a sandpaper progression.

The basic idea that has developed over time here (and perhaps other places as well) is that you are pretty much there, or thereabouts, in terms of sharpness (two sides of the bevel meeting at a point) after the 1K stone or similar. You may gain marginal sharpness after than, but the main purpose of subsequent, higher grit, stones is to progressively reduce the scratch pattern left by the previous stone. The increase in grit should be such that each successive stone doesn't take forever to remove the previous stone's scratch pattern.

This is the reason why we are so adamant about setting or establishing the bevel - it is where "sharp" comes from. "Smooth" comes after. You may be able to get away with "sharp but not smooth", but you'll never get away with "smooth but not sharp".

James.

Good idea to get it honed by someone who knows how at this stage. I must say, it's probably really clear that you initially honed it without watching any videos on honing at all and probably without reading about honing; would that be right?

I know it's a bit late now, but just in case any other newbies are reading this, of course you'll do what you'll do, but we would HIGHLY recommend watching the huge number of honing videos, checking out the articles in the library, and hanging out in the honing section before possibly destroying your new razors! :-)

Youre on the right track now! Good choice in sending it off. The Norton is an excellent stone and the only stone you will ever really need. You will probably get hooked and add more to play around with though. It would also be a good idea to get a second razor for your honing practice. Once your razor comes back from being pro honed you wont need to hone it again for months if you treat it right.

What kind of razor is it? How was it shaving BEFORE you tried honing it? This might give a clue what to expect from your blade.

When you did the magic marker test, did you look with a loupe or other magnifier? There could just be a small area that you arent reaching at the very edge. That would be hard to see with the naked eye.

If you need me to hone your razor I'll happily take a look at it for you. I ask nothing in return. Just PM me.

Michael