When to refresh?

When do I need to refresh the edge on my razor? Or how will I know when it needs to he refreshed would be a better question. Will the edge need to be refreshed more often for a beginner than someone more experienced?
What hone would be recommended for refreshing the edge? I'd imagine it would be a high grit, based on what I've learned so far, or a barber's hone (I'm still a bit unclear as to what the differences between the two would be).

When I first got my razor, it could pass a HHT no problem, but now, it can't. I know, I know...it's meant as a honing guide to probe the edge and the real test is the shave test. I've read all about it in SRP wiki, but that brings me back to my first question.

Any advice, knowledge and elaboration you guys can pass on is much appreciated. In the mean time, I'll keep digging in the SRP wiki.

The shave test is the thing to go by. When the razor no longer performs as you expect, then it's time to consider touching it up a bit. There really (IMHO) is no other reliable way to make that call.

It probably will often need to be refreshed more often for a beginner simply because there are things that people are less prone to do as they gain more experience that can lead to a razor needing to be refreshed or outright re-honed. Rolling the edge while stropping leaps to mind as a good example.

As for whether to get a barber's hone or some other finisher, either one will do the trick. One thing to watch out for with barber's hones though is that you will often see older vintage ones, so you have to be aware of a few potential problems to watch out for (is it chipped, has the original surface been lapped away, etc). The advantage is that they are often cheap, so if you shop carefully, it can be a good way to go.

I'd also suggest considering a high grit synthetic such as a Naniwa 12k. I don't have a Naniwa myself, but I know a lot of guys swear by them. Natural finishers can be great, but you have to be a bit careful with them too due to natural variations, particularly with the Chinese 12k/15k/PHIG.

Personally, I go to my trusty Zulu Grey or barber's hone (Swaty), whichever I'm in the mood for. :)

Are u stropping before and after each shave? Get stropping down first and u could also touch up on a pasted strop will keep u going for awhile.. get that down before u start honing ..the razor will feel like its almost pulling at your hair not comfortable at all

As soon as you notice a drop in performance it's time for a touch up. Usually a few laps on a stone or pasted strop will do the trick. But the longer you wait the more maintenance the blade will require. Just something to keep in mind.

As well, sometimes stropping can bring the edge back to life. The problem is that you really have to have a good grasp on stropping techniques to know it's limitations, what to do and when.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kwlfca

What hone would be recommended for refreshing the edge? I'd imagine it would be a high grit, based on what I've learned so far, or a barber's hone (I'm still a bit unclear as to what the differences between the two would be).

---

A barber's hone is a high (or fine) grit, usually small enough to fit in a pocket, and it usually has a very high ratio of grit to binder. That makes it a very fast cutter--you can restore a slipping edge in just a few strokes. They were designed to fit in the pockets of barbers' smocks, and to be useful at high speed--because barbers were paid to shave, not to hone.

High-grit finishers, either natural or synthetic, are usually slower-cutting than barber's hones because they have a lower ratio of grit to matrix (or binder). The preference for one over another is a personal thing.

Your best bet is to get a synthetic hone that lots of other people have used, so that you can get advice from folks who are using exactly the same thing. That's more difficult with naturals than with synthetics, since the naturals are variable.

Depending on how far your edge has gone, on whether you've rounded it by stropping on pastes, you might need to go back to a coarser hone, say to 4k grit. That would call for one of the main workhorse hones around here, the Norton 4k/8k. If you really only need a light touchup, a Naniwa 12k would be a good choice. It's quite fast for as fine as it is, and everyone's Naniwa 12k is pretty much like everyone else's.

You may be tempted by the low price of the Chinese 12k, but beware, it's a natural and the effective grit may be far coarser than 12k. They also have a reputation for being very slow honers and very difficult to lap flat.

Whatever you get, you'll want to lap it flat before putting a razor on it.

Best wishes and good luck to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cangooner

One thing to watch out for with barber's hones though is that you will often see older vintage ones, so you have to be aware of a few potential problems to watch out for (is it chipped, has the original surface been lapped away, etc).

---

Well, THIS post certainly is timely, as by coincidence I was given a truly ancient barber's hone today. The corners are chipped a bit, and the surface was not at all flat, so I lapped it flat. But did I remove the "original" surface and thus harm it? I've never used a barbers hone before. Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kwlfca

When do I need to refresh the edge on my razor? Or how will I know when it needs to he refreshed would be a better question. Will the edge need to be refreshed more often for a beginner than someone more experienced?
What hone would be recommended for refreshing the edge? I'd imagine it would be a high grit, based on what I've learned so far, or a barber's hone (I'm still a bit unclear as to what the differences between the two would be).

When I first got my razor, it could pass a HHT no problem, but now, it can't. I know, I know...it's meant as a honing guide to probe the edge and the real test is the shave test. I've read all about it in SRP wiki, but that brings me back to my first question.

Any advice, knowledge and elaboration you guys can pass on is much appreciated. In the mean time, I'll keep digging in the SRP wiki.

---

I have found that most beginners double the time between Honing/touch ups twice, from when they first start shaving

They get their razor and say the edge lasts 1 month

The second time it is honed up it will go 2 months

after the third time it will go 4 months and pretty well that is your cycle


When you first start you mess everything up, from the prep and lather, to the stropping, as you progress you get better at everything so the edge lasts longer and longer

(month intervals are just for examples)


HHT:

Why do we say don't do it???

Because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, first it has to be calibrated, and until you hone, it can't be calibrated, second it doesn't really tell you anything about how the razor will shave..
Third, a newb trys it and fails, and decides the edge is to blame, rather then their own non-existent technique :p


BTW yer post tells me you need to practice stropping

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by medicineball

Well, THIS post certainly is timely, as by coincidence I was given a truly ancient barber's hone today. The corners are chipped a bit, and the surface was not at all flat, so I lapped it flat. But did I remove the "original" surface and thus harm it? I've never used a barbers hone before. Thanks!

---

I'll let the real honing pros tackle the lapping question on this one. :) I definitely stand to be corrected, but as I understand it, with *some* barber's hones, once the original surface has been removed (i.e. lapped away) its performance will be degraded.

For the chips, depending on how big they are and where they are, you might be able to smooth them over by chamfering the edges. Just try to make it so there are no harsh edges on the hone that might come into contact with your edge.

Cangooner, it is a reddish-brown shumate dry barbers hone - I think it looks very attractive. The surface was shiny when I got it, and now that I've lapped it, it's dull. Lapped it with 200 grit and then 1K grit. It's a truly handy size. I got it from a maintenance man in my building, who - get this - still shaves with his great-grandfathers razor. Very cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roughkype

Depending on how far your edge has gone, on whether you've rounded it by stropping on pastes, you might need to go back to a coarser hone, say to 4k grit. That would call for one of the main workhorse hones around here, the Norton 4k/8k. If you really only need a light touchup, a Naniwa 12k would be a good choice. It's quite fast for as fine as it is, and everyone's Naniwa 12k is pretty much like everyone else's.

Whatever you get, you'll want to lap it flat before putting a razor on it.

---

Ending up with a rounded bevel is one of the reasons that I have already been feeling wary of pastes...it kind of seems like a bandaid fix kind of deal. Refreshing the edge on a paste, at the cost of a good bevel, seems like it wouldn't be very beneficial in the long run...no?

I've been reading about lapping as well, now that you mention that too, both on a lapping stone and the wet/dry sandpaper, and was wondering if the synthetics would need to be lapped as well as the naturals...I'm guessing that is a yes based on what you said.

I've had the Naniwa 12k bookmarked in my browser for a little while now, so it's good to know that I was already headed in the right direction :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have found that most beginners double the time between Honing/touch ups twice, from when they first start shaving

They get their razor and say the edge lasts 1 month

The second time it is honed up it will go 2 months

after the third time it will go 4 months and pretty well that is your cycle


When you first start you mess everything up, from the prep and lather, to the stropping, as you progress you get better at everything so the edge lasts longer and longer

(month intervals are just for examples)


HHT:

Why do we say don't do it???

Because it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, first it has to be calibrated, and until you hone, it can't be calibrated, second it doesn't really tell you anything about how the razor will shave..
Third, a newb trys it and fails, and decides the edge is to blame, rather then their own non-existent technique :p


BTW yer post tells me you need to practice stropping

---

I don't quite follow what you mean Glen. I never said that there was anything wrong with the performance of the razor, I'm just asking for input to make sure that I'm headed in the right direction for a refreshing hone for WHEN it needs to be refreshed. I brought up the HHT test in my OP because I'm curious as to why a razor would pass the test, and then not, all while having the same performance in TST...maybe that's where some of the confusion is coming from :p

I read someone talking about someone less experienced needing to refresh more often like you're saying, so that's good to know for sure. I just want to preemptively be aware of it so that when I do notice a decline in performance that can't be fixed with a good stropping, I'll eventually know what to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kwlfca

Ending up with a rounded bevel is one of the reasons that I have already been feeling wary of pastes...it kind of seems like a bandaid fix kind of deal. Refreshing the edge on a paste, at the cost of a good bevel, seems like it wouldn't be very beneficial in the long run...no?

I've been reading about lapping as well, now that you mention that too, both on a lapping stone and the wet/dry sandpaper, and was wondering if the synthetics would need to be lapped as well as the naturals...I'm guessing that is a yes based on what you said.

I've had the Naniwa 12k bookmarked in my browser for a little while now, so it's good to know that I was already headed in the right direction :)

---

i dont really think a pasted strop should round a bevel, especially when pastes are used on balsa wood which is usually perfectly flat! i read through this thread a while back:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...xperiment.html
and the results support my thought on pastes, unless i did not comprehend the results well enough :banghead:
anyways, the naniwa 12k is excellent as many have claimed (i do not have one :( ), and i myself have a barber hone on the way! gooodluck with whatever decision you make :)

You had me worried, that razor should give you 30 shaves without needing a touch-up as it's quite hard New York steel. My recommendation on stropping is 40x after the shave and 60x before. For me that is a minimum. Your razor was honed on Shapton GS stones to 16K and finished on a natural finisher...no tape. This is my "go-to" method. That razor left the U.S. with a nice and crisp edge as I shaved with it, stropped it well, disinfected it, oiled it, then packaged it. All you needed to do with it before the shave was wipe off the oil & take it to a nicely prepared beard & I know it would cut any beard like warm butter. If properly maintained, it should do that for MANY shaves. If it doesn't, then we need to identify what else is going on.

For touchups my normal recommendation is a quality barber hone like a Swaty, a Naniwa 12K, or Shapton GS 16K. I have a diamond pasted paddle strop myself, but I have come to prefer just doing a touch-up on either a thuringian or my 16K.

You will find that you will hear of many ways to touch-up a razor that works for different folks. None of them are wrong as they do work for those folks, it's just finding what works for you. There are many paths to a good shave, all that matters is that you arrive there & enjoy the trip!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shooter74743

You had me worried, that razor should give you 30 shaves without needing a touch-up as it's quite hard New York steel. My recommendation on stropping is 40x after the shave and 60x before. For me that is a minimum. Your razor was honed on Shapton GS stones to 16K and finished on a natural finisher...no tape. This is my "go-to" method. That razor left the U.S. with a nice and crisp edge as I shaved with it, stropped it well, disinfected it, oiled it, then packaged it. All you needed to do with it before the shave was wipe off the oil & take it to a nicely prepared beard & I know it would cut any beard like warm butter. If properly maintained, it should do that for MANY shaves. If it doesn't, then we need to identify what else is going on.

For touchups my normal recommendation is a quality barber hone like a Swaty, a Naniwa 12K, or Shapton GS 16K. I have a diamond pasted paddle strop myself, but I have come to prefer just doing a touch-up on either a thuringian or my 16K.

You will find that you will hear of many ways to touch-up a razor that works for different folks. None of them are wrong as they do work for those folks, it's just finding what works for you. There are many paths to a good shave, all that matters is that you arrive there & enjoy the trip!

---

Don't worry, I just shaved with it and it performs just as beautifully as the day that I got it! :)

I'm just investigating for the future! After all, why leave learning about this stuff until it needs it when you could learn about it in advance when you still have loads of time! I'd probably send it back to you when it finally does need a touch up, in all honesty haha I'd just like to properly educate myself before I even try to do any refreshing. Probably watch a hundred and one videos of various SRP members honing too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kwlfca

Don't worry, I just shaved with it and it performs just as beautifully as the day that I got it! :)

I'm just investigating for the future! After all, why leave learning about this stuff until it needs it when you could learn about it in advance when you still have loads of time! I'd probably send it back to you when it finally does need a touch up, in all honesty haha I'd just like to properly educate myself before I even try to do any refreshing. Probably watch a hundred and one videos of various SRP members honing too.

---

When the razor needs a touch-up, you should be ready. Save your money and pick up one of the three stones I mentioned & have at it. You aren't going to hurt the razor on any of the three stones I mentioned.