Dull razor after just 3 shaves

how hard can it be to put the razor flat on a strop and swish it back and forth following the spine? well... turns out some things are not what they seem to be. Anyways, I dulled my brand new Dovo Prima Klang having only 3 shaves out of it. Sad story, I know. We beginners, such a useless kind:)) As many other beginners would say, I have absolutely no idea how that little nick appeared on my razor. I noticed it only after my strop got several light scratches from the little hook on the edge. I also noticed that the blade was picking up a small amount of leather closer to the tip (around 1/2" of the blade, the lower part seems to be still pretty sharp). I have some guesses on how this could have developed:

1. I lifted the blade after my final round of stropping (but then why was only upper part dulled)
2. I hold the razor properly going up, but less pressure on the edge coming down on the strop, hence edge got rounded
3. Polyweb material might have a small piece of debris or something woven into it, which chipped the blade

I would really like to know what more experienced members think about beginners mistakes of this kind and how to avoid them (provided I've real all wikis here and tons of videos on youtube by Lynn Abrams)
I guess I need to have the blade rehoned and I will have to venture myself into this all on my own, as shipping costs from and back to Dubai are almost what a new razor would cost.
Also, what is a good way to polish out the strop. The scratches are very-very shallow so its for aesthetic purposes only.

Wow, shipping sounds expensive from Dubai! If you can choose a slower, less expensive form of shipping maybe you could pick up a 2nd razor so you'll have one to use when you ship the other for honing? A finishing stone like a Naniwa 12k or something would be nice.

A pasted balsa strop has helped me keep my edge right starting out. I have the webbing material (SRP strop) as well but haven't used it too much as I haven't pasted it yet and mostly use the leather. Its hard to imagine something bad being woven in there but depending on where you got yours it could be of a different quality.

I'm not sure what to tell you about polishing the strop. I've heard just to massage it and just let the oil from your fingers prep it, but I don't know if that would remove scratches. You could use neatsfoot oil in a very tiny amount as well but not sure if that would remove scratches either.

As far as stropping technique, it sounds like you are reading up. If you're putting scratches on your strop from a nicked blade it's hard for me to imagine you causing that nick from stropping - unless you are hitting a rough edge on the side of the strop. Or, maybe you dinged it some other way? Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt though, I'm still relatively new to stropping myself.

You can avoid the mistakes by two ways that I know of: slowing down & gaining experience.

It does sound like you rolled the edge or touched the hardware on either end of the strop. It happens, but you will most likely need to take that razor to a minimum of a barber hone & it could need a full honing...just depends on the amount of damage on the edge. Strop the dickens out of the razor on the polyweb (you could lay it on a table edge) and see if it helps if you don't have any stones.

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Originally Posted by RADisorder

Wow, shipping sounds expensive from Dubai! If you can choose a slower, less expensive form of shipping maybe you could pick up a 2nd razor so you'll have one to use when you ship the other for honing? A finishing stone like a Naniwa 12k or something would be nice.

A pasted balsa strop has helped me keep my edge right starting out. I have the webbing material (SRP strop) as well but haven't used it too much as I haven't pasted it yet and mostly use the leather. Its hard to imagine something bad being woven in there but depending on where you got yours it could be of a different quality.

I'm not sure what to tell you about polishing the strop. I've heard just to massage it and just let the oil from your fingers prep it, but I don't know if that would remove scratches. You could use neatsfoot oil in a very tiny amount as well but not sure if that would remove scratches either.

As far as stropping technique, it sounds like you are reading up. If you're putting scratches on your strop from a nicked blade it's hard for me to imagine you causing that nick from stropping - unless you are hitting a rough edge on the side of the strop. Or, maybe you dinged it some other way? Take what I'm saying with a grain of salt though, I'm still relatively new to stropping myself.

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Thanks for you insights... I am thinking about buying a new razor altogether. Cheap shipping is not an option from here, at least not one that would guarantee the delivery (they have lost a set of keys I mailed to US last year). Everything else is $65-70 and around the same for the return. Anyways I bought a Coticule from the manufacturer in Belgium and a digital microscope:) I know more experienced folks might have a laugh at the last one, but I like results to be measured, recorded and compared:)

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

You can avoid the mistakes by two ways that I know of: slowing down & gaining experience.

It does sound like you rolled the edge or touched the hardware on either end of the strop. It happens, but you will most likely need to take that razor to a minimum of a barber hone & it could need a full honing...just depends on the amount of damage on the edge. Strop the dickens out of the razor on the polyweb (you could lay it on a table edge) and see if it helps if you don't have any stones.

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hmm... hitting the hardware, oops, I've done that. But isn't it the spine hitting it? Can it harm the edge as well? I did like 100 rounds on polyweb to the point the blade does not scratch the leather anymore, but I doubt it will shave either. At least it does not shave arm hair. I still do see the little chip on the blade. I do strop slowly, but don't feel enough control over the blade coming back on the strop.

Don't know what to tell you except stropping looks deceptively simple but it isn't in practice to do it right. You learn over time with practice fine tuning your technique till it all comes together. Like any learning process there are a few bumps on the road to success. Happens to everyone.

You mention putting pressure on the edge, item #2. You should not consciously be putting pressure on the edge just the spine while keeping the blade flat on the strop.Have you checked with a pin to see if you have really rolled the edge?

Could be that the nick being near the toe/tip of the blade is not allowing the blade to make good contact with the strop in that area so it is duller that the rest. That is just a guess on my part.

I am finding it hard to believe a nick in the blade can come from the stropping material used but I guess anything is possible.

Yea, the cost of shipping a razor out to be honed and the inconvenience of it lead me to get some hones too. Be prepared to be a bit frustrated there too when learning to hone. It is another deceptively simple looking process.

Bob

Sounds like its time for a honing. It will make your razor sharp again and get rid of that little nick. I hit my razor on the faucet while rincing the first week of having my Dovo. No big deal just sharpen it again on the hones. Next time make sure you use very little pressure when you strop. The key is more laps with a light touch.

I use a Norton Combo and I am very happy with it. With the university of youtube you can learn anything :) so I encourage you to get your own and be self sufficient that way.

I wasn't there, only you can answer: "...isn't the spine hitting it?". Slow down my friend. By the sound of it, to keep you shaving, another razor is in order as most of us have two or more razors for just that reason. When I travel, I take two razors just in case I damage the edge somehow. A coticule will work just fine for honing, but advice can be all over the place because the "grit" on coticules are all over the place. Most of the time we veteran honers will recommend a synthetic set of stones from Naniwa, Norton, or Shapton. I'm not saying anything bad about a coticule, but I've had quite a few and the one I have now sits and gathers dust when I sit down to hone razors. High magnification will help you to see what is going on when honing, this is a good thing. On your razor, if you can see a chip, then it needs some bevel repair work & that requires a coarse stone like a 1K or even coarser. Whatever you do, please use one layer of tape on the spine while learning to hone. Lastly, if your razor will not shave arm hair, it will not shave your face either...good call. When your coticule comes in, you can watch some of Lynn & Glen's (gssixgun) video's. If they are using synthetic stones in the video's you can use your Coticule's BBW side in place of 4K and the coticule side in the place of 8K.

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Originally Posted by BobH

Don't know what to tell you except stropping looks deceptively simple but it isn't in practice to do it right. You learn over time with practice fine tuning your technique till it all comes together. Like any learning process there are a few bumps on the road to success. Happens to everyone.

You mention putting pressure on the edge, item #2. You should not consciously be putting pressure on the edge just the spine while keeping the blade flat on the strop.Have you checked with a pin to see if you have really rolled the edge?

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Thanks Bob. I am a bit confused here, how do I not put any pressure on the edge put still put some on spine? In that case the edge would lift itself from the surface of the leather and won't touch it, or not? How exactly do I check with a pin? I think I missed that part of razor intelligence:)

You take a sharp pin and lightly run it over the edge from spine down. The sharp metal will grab if the edge is rolled. You will need to do this on both sides. Use no pressure or you will damage the edge. All you are doing is feeling the edge, visualize the edge having a bend in it like the letter "J".

When I correctly rememver Your other posts, You've got the Razor from Lynn - so it should have been honed properly and sharp. Otherwise I would have said that DOVO's are not very sharp coming from the factory.

With a little nick in it, the razor will have to be honed and a finisher-stone allone won't do that (without a doing hundret million strokes). The Edge truely is sensitive. When You hit - I mean touch - anything hard it will be at least bent. Your fingernail is engough. I think You would normally not get a nick from the strop, but hitting the leather's edge permenticular might be enough (did not try). Hitting any metal definitely will.

In my almost endless "hello"-post I had the idea of putting a piece of tape around the edge in order to protect edge, strop, and take some of the "excitement" out of the matter. As Your blade is dull now (probably still sharper than anything else in Your household), You might try that.
Then take it slow - slow motion is fine for the first strokes and the only way You can actually see what happens.
When You start stropping or on the upper or lower turnpoints do *not* lower the edge down to the leather untlil You're not already moving towards You (or away from You respectively). If You fully lower the blade at the turning point, chances are high that You move just a fraction of an inch into the (now) wrong direction and cut the leather.

When I restarted after 15 years I also caught a few light cuts at the turning points, because I once used to be a cool guy who could do it and simply started too fast. I was back on track after one or two hundret strokes, but had cought some very light cuts.
I used fine sandpaper to smoothen them, nailfail would do as well.

HTH

With light pressure on the spine during the stroke there is enough deflection in the strop to keep light contact with the edge. From the library here File:Bart+stropping+animated.gif - Straight Razor Place Wiki .

Bob

Just a couple of thoughts to consider. I hand rub both the webbing and leather side of my strop prior to every use because I read that is how to break in a new strop in the Shave
Wiki. I would imagine if you are doing this and there is some debris embedded in the webbing you would have felt it. I also caught myself flipping the blade on the edge once. I had really been concentrating on flipping on the spine but caught myself doing this when I got a little too comfortable.
In the General Discussion section there is a subforum titled Videos. There are some videos t where the poster has recorded themselves doing a shaving task and asking for feedback. This could be a way for you to find out if your stropping is causing the problems you are having.

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Originally Posted by Cros

how do I not put any pressure on the edge put still put some on spine?...

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I would say: You can't.
BobH can, all the experienced guys can. But I would say You can't and You should not.
Again referring to my rediculously long post. Stropping actually is quite complex. It looks easy and after having done it a few thousand times also starts feeling easy.
It's probably a bit like trying to apply butter from the fridge onto a slice of untoastet toast that You hold in Your hand.

I'm not sure if "pressure" is the correct term here. Maybe it's better to call it "weight". There should be no pressure on the edge that's for sure. pressure on the spine does not do any harm *if* you can quarantee that You neither put pressure on the edge or lift it from the leather.
Basicly You are stropping with the weight of the razor - the spine guided as if there where a magnet underneath the leather. Not a strong one. Just one that keeps the spine on track. This however is very difficult to accomplish when You hold the strop tight and the razor - in fear of loosing control over it - also.

I would state that, compared to an experienced guy with let's say 10 or 20,000 strokes, *any* beginner is putting too much pressure and force into the whole "stropping system". It's fear, tension, thinking, controlling, correcting - All of us had to go through this.
We all can give the one or other advice, but it only comes by doing it.

For me, I always found it helpful to listen and feel what leather and razor are trying to tell me.

Just a couple of hints about stropping

http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...st-2012-a.html


The first stage of stropping correctly is to "Do no harm" the next stage of stropping is to "Improve the edge" it takes time a practice to get to the second stage

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

You take a sharp pin and lightly run it over the edge from spine down. The sharp metal will grab if the edge is rolled. You will need to do this on both sides. Use no pressure or you will damage the edge. All you are doing is feeling the edge, visualize the edge having a bend in it like the letter "J".

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Just did the pin test as you suggested. It confirmed that the area around the little chip is rolled towards one side. The total length of the rolled is around 1/2". Sigh... well nothing else left but to buy a new razor and while I am at it maybe even 2 or 5:)

You are going to need some stones since shipping is out of the question for you. Your current razor is out of the fight, just out of commission at the moment. Instead of "5" razors, might I suggest one or two and a set of stones like a:
Chosera 1K
Norton 4/8K, Naniwa 3/8K, or Shapton 4 & 8K

Razors will dull (the average human whisker is like cutting a pure copper wire of the same diameter) over time, get dinged and the such...you will (considering the shipping costs you incur) have to learn to maintain your own razors. Just a thought...we here on SRP are quite good at assisting one another spend their hard earned $$$.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

You are going to need some stones since shipping is out of the question for you. Your current razor is out of the fight, just out of commission at the moment. Instead of "5" razors, might I suggest one or two and a set of stones like a:
Chosera 1K
Norton 4/8K, Naniwa 3/8K, or Shapton 4 & 8K

Razors will dull (the average human whisker is like cutting a pure copper wire of the same diameter) over time, get dinged and the such...you will (considering the shipping costs you incur) have to learn to maintain your own razors. Just a thought...we here on SRP are quite good at assisting one another spend their hard earned $$$.

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Thank you Scott. I ordered a Coticule from Belgium and hope to learn to use it. It is a yellow side only stone and hope it will do the job of bringing my shot down razor back to life:) I watched tons of stropping videos last night and I see where I went wrong with my technique.

I didn't mention naturals for a reason with you learning to hone. Naturals can be a bit quirky to learn. Any honing veteran here on SRP can give you a "recipe" to follow with synthetics, this really isn't so with a natural as your coticule and mine WILL be different. Don't get me wrong, you can learn to produce a good shaving edge from coticules & I hope you have a smooth journey...my personal journey with coti's has had a bumpy road. There are others here who swear by them, but I will bet you a dollar that they are honing on vintage coticules & they have gone through quite a few stones to get the ones they currently use. They are quiet the versatile stone I just admit...

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Naturals can be a bit quirky to learn. Any honing veteran I will bet you a dollar that they are honing on vintage coticules & they have gone through quite a few stones to get the ones they currently use.

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Scott, are you inferring that vintage coticules are of a better quality compared to the new stones? I have heard that it is harder to do harm to the edge on a coticule compared to synthetics, as if you don't raise fresh slurry, the initial one can serve to remove only so much metal, so over-honing is not that great of an issue. Is this true in your opinion? I am really-really-really scared of over-honing, I am just kind of a person who tends to overdo everything:)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

The first stage of stropping correctly is to "Do no harm" the next stage of stropping is to "Improve the edge" it takes time a practice to get to the second stage

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Is there a "Stroppers Oath" to take?

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Originally Posted by Cros

Scott, are you inferring that vintage coticules are of a better quality compared to the new stones? I have heard that it is harder to do harm to the edge on a coticule compared to synthetics, as if you don't raise fresh slurry, the initial one can serve to remove only so much metal, so over-honing is not that great of an issue. Is this true in your opinion? I am really-really-really scared of over-honing, I am just kind of a person who tends to overdo everything:)

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I have yet to have my hands on a good vintage coticule, but this is what I hear from those who truly know and have a lot of experience with them. I can't agree with the statement that a coticule is easier on the edge/razor than a synthetic when you stay with comparable "grits"...it's all up to the person holding the razor. I really doubt you will ever overhone on your coticule, but you shouldn't be "scared" of it by any means, just means you will have to go back to the stones if you do. Remember, less is more when it comes to honing. I would rather you to "think" your razor is shave ready, you test shave with it & find it needs a "little bit more on a clean, water only stone" than to hear you honed away 1.0 cm of steel away "just to be sure" from your razor. If you want to keep your "over-do" tendencies, over-do it on the collecting side of stones, strops, and razors.