Pastes and such

Hi, i was hoping for some advise.
I'm still a beginner so go easy on me please :/
I had a Dovo that i couldnt get sharp. My bro honed it on his stones (sharpening stones, not his nuts,silly) and it didnt work. I sent it twice for pro honing and that didnt work either. Then my brother bought a 4 sided paddle strop and 4 grades of diamond paste, and that green oxide stuff.
Bingo, my dovo for the first time is mega sharp , however it isnt smooth, that i can tell.
I've done some reading and learnt a bit about a harsh finish. I know the oxide paste can dull a blade if over used and there is a white lapping paste too.
I'm gonna buy some 3inch paddle strops and pastes. I want to know exactly what grade pastes to buy.
I want to buy some diamond pastes and the green and white lapping pastes.
How many laps of each paste should i perform?
I know it might vary depending on the person and the state of the blade.
I only shave once a week so my blades will only need a touch up now and then. I'd asume i dont need the coarser pastes.
Many Thanks

I think you should go easy with pastes. Just use them when needed and only when the razor starts pulling. If your razor has a bad bevel, paste cannot work a miracle.
I have just one paste, it is a chromium oxide paste - you can recognize it because of its green color - and I use it only to finish a honing session or to refresh an edge when the razor starts pulling. They are not however meant to be used on a regular basis.
My advice is to pay attention on your stropping technique as this makes a big difference for the edge life and quality of shaving.
Bad stropping means frequent honing or using a paste. Of course this also depends on the quality of the razor.

If it 'wasn't sharp' after being professionally honed but it was after a few laps on chromium oxide, it would suggest that your regular stropping technique is at fault.

Did you strop after having it honed? Usually you shouldn't need to...

Did you strop on leather after paste? You should do, and if you didn't, that's probably why it still feels harsh.

If you're not stropping well enough, though, you'll still dull the edge even after stropping with paste.

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Originally Posted by PigHog

If it 'wasn't sharp' after being professionally honed but it was after a few laps on chromium oxide, it would suggest that your regular stropping technique is at fault.

Did you strop after having it honed? Usually you shouldn't need to...

Did you strop on leather after paste? You should do, and if you didn't, that's probably why it still feels harsh.

If you're not stropping well enough, though, you'll still dull the edge even after stropping with paste.

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after 2 pro hones I just tried it straight off the bat, no stropping and it was dull, my bro went through 4 grades of diamond paste and it was very sharp.. my bro told me not to strop it after he did his paste honing but you might be rite, it feels harsh because it needs stropping..

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Originally Posted by JOB15

after 2 pro hones I just tried it straight off the bat, no stropping and it was dull, my bro went through 4 grades of diamond paste and it was very sharp.. my bro told me not to strop it after he did his paste honing but you might be rite, it feels harsh because it needs stropping..

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Stropping is very important and you can tell the difference, like you noticed. I would suggest you to improve your stropping technique.
It could also be a geometry problem of the razor, therefore making the honing procedure difficult. You said it is a Dovo: which model?

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Originally Posted by razorguy

Stropping is very important and you can tell the difference, like you noticed. I would suggest you to improve your stropping technique.
It could also be a geometry problem of the razor, therefore making the honing procedure difficult. You said it is a Dovo: which model?

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it's a Dovo solinger , it has fake mother of pearl scales and cost £200. that's all I know.I have 2 heart steel razors from Baxters of California, they are both amazing, super sharp and smooth..

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Originally Posted by JOB15

it's a Dovo solinger , it has fake mother of pearl scales and cost £200. that's all I know.I have 2 heart steel razors from Baxters of California, they are both amazing, super sharp and smooth..

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Maybe a picture could help? Dovo is the brand name, whereas Solingen is the famous German town where Dovo has its headquarters.
It is not easy to identify your razor: Dovo makes many models and many of them have fake mother peal scales.

Attachment 133850

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Originally Posted by razorguy

Maybe a picture could help? Dovo is the brand name, whereas Solingen is the famous German town where Dovo has its headquarters.
It is not easy to identify your razor: Dovo makes many models and many of them have fake mother peal scales.

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The pic of the open razor is mine

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Originally Posted by JOB15

The pic of the open razor is mine

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What about a larger picture? ;-)

Attachment 133851Attachment 133852

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Originally Posted by razorguy

What about a larger picture? ;-)

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hows that :)

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Originally Posted by JOB15

hows that :)

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Now it's right :tu
This type of razor is not difficult to hone and it does not usually take much time to get a good edge.
Although the picture is large, it is not possible to see the honewear which however does not seem to be bad.
Let's suppose the one who honed your razor did a good job, we know you used a lot of paste in order to have it sharp. At this point my conclusion is that your razor is overhoned, something happening when you strop too much a blade on a paste.

Attachment 133853Attachment 133854

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Originally Posted by razorguy

Now it's right :tu
This type of razor is not difficult to hone and it does not usually take much time to get a good edge.
Although the picture is large, it is not possible to see the honewear which however does not seem to be bad.
Let's suppose the one who honed your razor did a good job, we know you used a lot of paste in order to have it sharp. At this point my conclusion is that your razor is overhoned, something happening when you strop too much a blade on a paste.

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I just changed those crappy scales for North American Redwood..
What do you suggest? Give it a good stropping, it hasnt been stropped since it was sharpened with the diamond pastes...

Should i buy these and forget about the diamond pastes????

The Classic Brand Lapping Pastes, 2oz

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Originally Posted by JOB15

I just changed those crappy scales for North American Redwood..
What do you suggest? Give it a good stropping, it hasnt been stropped since it was sharpened with the diamond pastes...

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Scales look wonderful for sure.
Why are you paying so much attention on pastes? You seem to like pastes quite a lot but, like I wrote, if you make an excessive use of them the blade will become overhoned and the blade will not cut like it should.
So, my advice is:

1) take a break from pastes: the more you use them the worse for your razor's edge
2) don't be obsessed to have a lot of them: a good quality chromium oxide paste is all you need
3) pay scrupulous attention on your stropping technique: this makes a big difference both for razor's life and quality of shaving
4) don't use pastes on a regular basis. Use a chromium oxide paste only when the razor starts pulling
5) in case the razors pulls after having passed it on chromium oxide, consider honing it with a fine grit hone (natural or synthetic) and then a good strop on chromium oxide (say, from 5 to 10 passes)
6) strop and stropping are more important than pastes

You should also consider many straight razor users do not advise the use of pastes as they are considered a "sort of advanced technique". Stropping is (almost) everything.

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Originally Posted by razorguy

Scales look wonderful for sure.
Why are you paying so much attention on pastes? You seem to like pastes quite a lot but, like I wrote, if you make an excessive use of them the blade will become overhoned and the blade will not cut like it should.
So, my advice is:

1) take a break from pastes: the more you use them the worse for your razor's edge
2) don't be obsessed to have a lot of them: a good quality chromium oxide paste is all you need
3) pay scrupulous attention on your stropping technique: this makes a big difference both for razor's life and quality of shaving
4) don't use pastes on a regular basis. Use a chromium oxide paste only when the razor starts pulling
5) in case the razors pulls after having passed it on chromium oxide, consider honing it with a fine grit hone (natural or synthetic) and then a good strop on chromium oxide (say, from 5 to 10 passes)
6) strop and stropping are more important than pastes

You should also consider many straight razor users do not advise the use of pastes as they are considered a "sort of advanced technique". Stropping is (almost) everything.

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Thanks for your advise. I will buy a paddle strop with the green and white pastes but i wont use them unless i feel pulling. I will just stick to storopping. None of my blades have gone dull yet, it was just that Dovo that was never sharp untill now..

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Originally Posted by razorguy

Scales look wonderful for sure.
Why are you paying so much attention on pastes? You seem to like pastes quite a lot but, like I wrote, if you make an excessive use of them the blade will become overhoned and the blade will not cut like it should.
So, my advice is:

1) take a break from pastes: the more you use them the worse for your razor's edge
2) don't be obsessed to have a lot of them: a good quality chromium oxide paste is all you need
3) pay scrupulous attention on your stropping technique: this makes a big difference both for razor's life and quality of shaving
4) don't use pastes on a regular basis. Use a chromium oxide paste only when the razor starts pulling
5) in case the razors pulls after having passed it on chromium oxide, consider honing it with a fine grit hone (natural or synthetic) and then a good strop on chromium oxide (say, from 5 to 10 passes)
6) strop and stropping are more important than pastes

You should also consider many straight razor users do not advise the use of pastes as they are considered a "sort of advanced technique". Stropping is (almost) everything.

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+10. This is just spot on advice! Well done Razorguy.

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Originally Posted by Attila

+10. This is just spot on advice! Well done Razorguy.

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Wow! +10 seem too much! :)

I thought it was warranted!

For daily maintenance, I use about 30 strokes linen and 50 leather on an unpasted hanging strop immediately after shaving and again immediately before my next shave. Stropping is harder to do than it seems, has a significant effect on edge quality, but can dull a shave ready edge when it is not done well. Unfortunately, there is no getting around learning to strop well since it must be done for each shave.

I usually use my hanging strop with it laying flat on the flat edge of my bathroom sink counter for greater control. It is important that the counter surface used for stropping on a laid down hanging strop be really flat, and not slightly up turned at its edge for drip control, or the strop will not lay flat for the razor.

Try for a stroke feel of full edge contact and smoothness rather than speed. Do not be afraid to wipe your blade and your strop, if you perceive any gritty feel or possible dirt contamination of the strop during a stroke.

A finishing hone, a barber's hone, or a pasted strop are the traditional means of refreshing an edge. Pasted strops for refreshing an edge appear to be more popular in the EU than in the US. When stropping with the unpasted strop fails to revive my razor edge, I use a pasted strop for 5 to 20 strokes followed by wiping the blade clean and re-stropping with the unpasted strop. This usually recovers my edge. If the unpasted strop still fails, I repeat the pasted strop one or two more times.

When the pasted strop clearly has lost its effectiveness, it is time for a blade touch-up on the finishing hone, or a full re-honing progression (typically about 1k, 4k, 8k, optional higher-K finisher). Learning to hone is also an acquired skill. It is feasible to send blades out for re-honing as honing is needed less frequently than stropping.

If you are going to try your own honing, consider trying the 8k or finisher before going to the 4k, and the 4k before dropping down to the 1k as one does not want any more hone wear on a blade than the minimum necessary. If a blade requires the 1K hone, the bevel must be set correctly on the 1K hone before the 4K hone will be effective, unless you hone a very long time. Using a high grit stone on a blade prematurely is like trying to shape a board using ultra-fine sandpaper. A finely finished wooden object is possible only after the saw, the plane, and course sandpaper have 1st done their work.

I make my own pasted bench strops from Hand American honing leather. 3 x 12 inch planed hard wood boards and 3-M 77 spray adhesive. I get these supplies locally from Woodcraft, but there are other sources. Popular choices for "pastes" include 3, 1, 0.5, or 0.25 um diamond sprays, CrOx, and red/black Dovo pastes.

Dovo Paste Dovo Strop Paste, Red and Black 2-Part Set | RoyalShave

Hand American Diamond Spray, leather, and CrOx Hand American

Diamonds work well on hard and stainless steel blades, but some feel that the edges produced are somewhat harsh. Bench strops are cheap to make and easy to use. Why not try them out and see what you think of the results. One can always try a finishing hone or a full honing progression if the strops do not work out as well as desired.

Pasted strops need not be wasted, they also work well on kitchen knives in lieu of steeling the blades. I keep a separate set of pasted strops for my knives.

DMT diamond plates work well on hard and stainless steel knives and are superb for flattening/refreshing stones before honing razors.

HTH

Thanks for that info.. The only thing that im not 100% sure about is,when im stropping: should there be any pressure applied to the blade? I strop with no pressure but surely there should be a tiny amount?

Only enough to keep the blade flat on the strop. Try not to press or drag the edge at all. Always keep the spine in contact with the strop.. always. Also, make sure the strop is perfectly straight, so not sagging at all. Not enough pressure is still better than too much! :)

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Originally Posted by JOB15

Thanks for that info.. The only thing that im not 100% sure about is,when im stropping: should there be any pressure applied to the blade? I strop with no pressure but surely there should be a tiny amount?

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Pressure is NEVER the right way to go with a straight razor. Never use excessive pressure when using a straight razor.
This is valid for everything:

1) never use pressure when shaving. The weight of the blade is enough. You will prevent cuts on your face and applying pressure also gives you a lower quality shave
2) never use pressure when honing: this will damage the bevel angle and edge
3) never use much pressure when stropping: you will dull the edge

As for pressure to be applied for stropping and how to strop a razor in general, this is a perfect guide about it: Razor stropping - Straight Razor Place Wiki
I advice you to carefully read it: stropping is (almost) everything and always makes a huge difference. It will give you the best shave and it will keep your razor in perfect shape.