Honing Stones..

Hi, can i get some more advise please.
I have been looking into honing stones.
At first i wanted the Belgium Coticule stones but since doing a bit of online reading it seems the Naniwa Super Stones are prefered.
I want to buy the Naniwa 5k and a 12k and also some of that green oxide paste.
Does that make sense to you guys?
My blades dont get dull dull, i only shave once a week and stropping keeps um good.
I have one blade which is a dull and i cant bare tethought of it sitting there dull.
Would these three items be good for me?
Many thanks in advance for your advise.. :)

That's a big jump from 5k to 12, you might need something in the 8k range as well.

If are just touching up your own razor, a Norton 4k/8k and the Naniwa 12k + the CrOx should do it. You could also sub a Chinese 12k for the Naniwa (keep in mind they can be variable, C12k)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rodb

That's a big jump from 5k to 12, you might need something in the 8k range as well.

If are just touching up your own razor, a Norton 4k/8k and the Naniwa 12k + the CrOx should do it. You could also sub a Chinese 12k for the Naniwa (keep in mind they can be variable, C12k)

---

I wanted to get the 5 and 12k and bypass inbetween to save money :) im feeling cheap.. I think the norton alone is £150 ..

Yes not cheap at all!! That's why I mentioned the C12k as they are way cheaper than the Naniwa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JOB15

I wanted to get the 5 and 12k and bypass inbetween to save money :) im feeling cheap.. I think the norton alone is £150 ..

---

You wouldn't really save money by skipping steps like that, especially when learning to hone. You'd end up with something that wouldn't really get the job done (depending on what job you're trying to do). If you want to spend less, you could get the norton 4/8K (an 8K used to be the norm to finish on) and then get your chromium oxide paste to polish the edge further than the 8K...just use it sparingly so you don't get a wire edge. Naniwa also makes a 3/8 combo stone, which would be a bit easier to set a bevel on than the 4K. If you want a cheaper stone, look for the Taidea stones on ebay. They are corundum stones that some guys here have used and are decent (do a SRP search for taidea to read what they have to say). I got a 3K from the seller "hellogiftshop" for $35 CAD. While these stones are decent and a bit cheaper...there is a point where you may as well just get a norton. Also keep in mind that naniwa stones are softer stones and will need regular lapping. Taidea stones are harder by comparison.
You could also just get a coticule like you were already thinking and go from heavy to no slurry, progressively to do one stone honing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kwlfca

You wouldn't really save money by skipping steps like that, especially when learning to hone. You'd end up with something that wouldn't really get the job done (depending on what job you're trying to do). If you want to spend less, you could get the norton 4/8K (an 8K used to be the norm to finish on) and then get your chromium oxide paste to polish the edge further than the 8K...just use it sparingly so you don't get a wire edge. Naniwa also makes a 3/8 combo stone, which would be a bit easier to set a bevel on than the 4K. If you want a cheaper stone, look for the Taidea stones on ebay. They are corundum stones that some guys here have used and are decent (do a SRP search for taidea to read what they have to say). I got a 3K from the seller "hellogiftshop" for $35 CAD. While these stones are decent and a bit cheaper...there is a point where you may as well just get a norton. Also keep in mind that naniwa stones are softer stones and will need regular lapping. Taidea stones are harder by comparison.
You could also just get a coticule like you were already thinking and go from heavy to no slurry, progressively to do one stone honing.

---

Hi, thanks for the info.. a few questions :) Whats a wire edge? and whats the difference between having a thick slurry to a no slurry? am i right in thinking the honing action is a different action on the norton than it is on the coticule? thanks

A wire edge is an edge that is too thin and fails, usually from overhoning or overuse of pastes. Slurry will help you to "lower" the "grit" of a stone. I say "lower" because it doesn't actually lower it, it give you more cutting power, which speeds things up. I put grit in quotes because coticules and other naturals don't have an actual grit rating.
This might give you a better idea of what I mean and explain a little further: Belgian Hones - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Lynn recommends only 4-7 strokes on chromium oxide. I've never used it myself, I have a nani 12K that I use to refresh (although some use both). Here's Lynn's vid for a bunch of refreshing methods http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=.
Both Lynn and Glen (gssixgun) have awesome videos on youtube for honing on all sorts of media (nortons, naniwas, shapton, cotis etc). I've watched them all countless times and are a huge help when learning to hone. I recommend them highly!

i think you would be better just a 12k nani if all you are doing is refreshing razors. it is expensive but then your not paying for the other stones.

Something I have been looking into as a cheap(er) entry into the world of honing is honing film. There seems to be a general consensus on this forum and on others that this stuff is pretty good for honing and touch-ups. Here's a link to a great article i stumbled across about the stuff. Just another option if you don't feel like dropping $150+ for a couple of hones right off the bat...

Good Luck! :)

To add another option: search the forum for Glen and Lynn's thread on one stone honing. They mention it is also possible on a synthetic 8K. That way, you may be able to get by with just the Naniwa 8K and paste, and purchase the 12K later on if you feel like improving your edges.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kwlfca

Lynn recommends only 4-7 strokes on chromium oxide. I've never used it myself, I have a nani 12K that I use to refresh (although some use both). Here's Lynn's vid for a bunch of refreshing methods http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=.
Both Lynn and Glen (gssixgun) have awesome videos on youtube for honing on all sorts of media (nortons, naniwas, shapton, cotis etc). I've watched them all countless times and are a huge help when learning to hone. I recommend them highly!

---

Thanks for that.
I think i can forget about being a cheapskate. I wouldnt buy a cheap razor so ill end up spending loads as normal.
I think i will give it a lot more thought before i purchase anything.
First up i wanna get some green oxide in a stick like Lynn uses in the video, be it a smaller version. I also have to make a decision on the Naniwas vs the Cotis.
I think the Cotis looks more interesting to me at the moment. My brother has the norton 4/8 and the Naniwas 12k , plus more. I think the belgium stones might be more of a skill ....

It's possible to use just one stone. If you buy a coticule and starts with slurry and slowly dissolve the slurry with water. There's a fair amount of videos out there...

A coticule would be more versatile in my opinion. They come with slurry stones and, like I mentioned earlier, you could use varying amounts of slurry to get faster cutting speeds. A heavy slurry is usually comparable to a 1K for many coticules. Slurry on a coticule will also level off at a certain point and prevent you from overhoning. You could basically dilute the slurry when the steel is ready, all the way up to polishing stage. After that, do 5 laps with the chromium oxide that you want and see where the edge stands. Maybe do an extra stoke or two if it needs it after that.
Looking back, I wish I had gone this way for my first stone. It will probably be my next stone though, so no worries.

This is probably the single most toughest decision i've ever made :)
Seriously i cant choose between the Coticule or the Naniwa stones.
I want the Coticule but there are factors putting me off. It cannot give an edge like the super stones. However the Super stones are boring in comparison to the Coticule.
I suppose i should just buy the Naniwa 8k and 12k and maybe a touch of diamond spray and just get on with life :(
I only need to refresh my blades rarley.

I started off with a coticule and never quite mastered it in just over half a year. Synthetics are simply more reliable, and indeed, more boring. Myself, I'm saving some money for the Shapton 4K and 8K, having tried a few naturals that I just cannot seem to get a sharp enough edge off.

I've decided to go with the shaptons.. If i was buying just 2 shaptons which 2 would i need. Considering i only need to refresh my blades now and then and ill finish with a bit of diamond spray .5 ...
I think the grit numbers arnt equal to the naniwa stones..

You are right the grit numbers are not equal, as far as I know, the Naniwa 12K and Shapton 16K are the same particle size. With the 8K and 16K you should be able to refresh your blades and bring back slightly dull ones, I strongly suggest buying those. What I've read about the 30K is not encouraging: it leaves an edge that is almost too sharp for a comfortable shave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laurens

You are right the grit numbers are not equal, as far as I know, the Naniwa 12K and Shapton 16K are the same particle size. With the 8K and 16K you should be able to refresh your blades and bring back slightly dull ones, I strongly suggest buying those. What I've read about the 30K is not encouraging: it leaves an edge that is almost too sharp for a comfortable shave.

---

Yeh i was thinking about those numbers.. I would love the 30k but the price is too much, maybe one day down the line but thats why i think the diamond spray would be a nice touch to the finish and diamond spray is near enough free compared to the price of the 30k shapton..

True. In fact, Lynn shows in his Shapton honing tutorial that he does the exact thing you suggest: going from 16K to 0.5 micron diamond, deliberately leaving out the 30K. I heard someone describe the edge off a 30K as "a big heavy Feather". Too scary for me!

I've bought everything i need. I purchased the shapton 8k and 16k, all in including postage from japan for £170 and they have agreed to mark the package as a gift. Tax pfhh... All i need now is the correct lapping plate.
I believe i need the : 325 grit DMT8C but what size? they come in small sizes and big..

Cool choice. Shaptons are a bit too rich for my blood at this point though.
Next headache...learning to hone ;)

I thought i had everything but really now i need to buy 2 more shaptons, maybe a 1k and a 4k.
I also need the shapton stone holder plinth thing... Then i suppose ill need more straight razors..The list goes on and on :)

And so it begins :P I recommend the DMT 8C for lapping, I use mine successfully on my Shaptons. It's the big one. I stuck the rubber feet underneath it and use it (upside down) as a hone stand for most of my hones, works just fine and saves quite some money!

You may also want to look at classichandtools.com, they have the Shaptons and their shipping is pretty quick, which saves you the ache of waiting for them to arrive :) The 1K and 4K would definitely complete your set, IMHO. I love using the 1K to set bevels and sharpen kitchen knives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laurens

And so it begins :P I recommend the DMT 8C for lapping, I use mine successfully on my Shaptons. It's the big one. I stuck the rubber feet underneath it and use it (upside down) as a hone stand for most of my hones, works just fine and saves quite some money!

You may also want to look at classichandtools.com, they have the Shaptons and their shipping is pretty quick, which saves you the ache of waiting for them to arrive :) The 1K and 4K would definitely complete your set, IMHO. I love using the 1K to set bevels and sharpen kitchen knives.

---

Thanks, i went to classichandtools and ordered the 1k and the 4k , plus the pro shapton stone holder...
So i have an 8k and a 16k coming from japland and a 1k n 4k coming from the UK.
I like to complicate things :)
I also bought 4 Spontex microfibre window cloths , to wrap each stone lovingly ...
All i need to do now is practice honing, ill start with one of my brothers razors first, incase i mess it up :)

Ah, I know the feeling of doing complicated buying: I started off with the 1K and 16K and naturals in between. Last week, I pulled the trigger for the 4K and 8K and now have to wait for them to arrive.

They do need lapping to get them nicely flat. There's a nice tutorial in the Wiki on lapping, I suggest you look into that before honing.

Good luck, and enjoy!