Approximately how many hairs in a good badger knot, do you think?

I was having a conversation with a good friend, who recently bought a few brushes. One of which he said lost a couple of hairs on first use.
Now, it is my opinion that this is quite normal. Given the number of hairs that must be in a well packed knot, there are bound to be several loose ones in that bunch, and even if the maker has a habit of combing that knot before sending it out, they are not going to get them all. MHO. I would think it might take several shaves to shake them all out.
But this got me thinking. I wonder roughly how many thousands of hairs make up an average, say 22mm badger knot. Anyone know?

I doubt it's thousands. Most high end knots I've owned did not shed a single hair. Thater and morris & forndran to be specific

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Originally Posted by SRNewb

I wonder roughly how many thousands of hairs make up an average, say 22mm badger knot. Anyone know?

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I'm counting mine....will get back to you when I'm done :rofl2:

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I hope you get a serious (and knowledgeable) answer.

Is anyone else thinking Tootsie Pop?

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Couldn't help myself. Sabotaged my own thread.

Jared at TSS told me my VP Leonhardy 700030 (23mm knot) has about 25000 hairs. It is dense but well lofted. I've been using it for about 10 months now. I lose one hair most shaves. I will get plenty of shaves with that brush before it thins out enough to notice.

Thanks. i've been doing a little searching. there are a couple of threads on another forum that intimates there are literally tens of thousands of hairs in a badger knot. One in particular has Rudy Vey stating the weights of different sizes of badger knots in his possession. His info is that there are about a thousand hairs per gram of weight, and that on average a 22mm knot weighs 19 grams. Taking into account the weight of the plug, there is still room in that equation for several thousand hairs.

Check here Manufacturing of Shavemac shaving brushes - Shavemac a few paragraphs down.

Bob

Thanks for the link, Bob. That lines up with what i found.

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Originally Posted by BobH

Check here Manufacturing of Shavemac shaving brushes - Shavemac a few paragraphs down.

Bob

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Thanks Bob, That Shavemac article confirms what I was told years ago, that a 23mm knot would have 15,000 or more individual hairs.

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Originally Posted by SRNewb

Thanks for the link, Bob. That lines up with what i found.

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You are welcome. Pretty staggering number when you think about, eh. Even if the knot looses a few hundred hairs there is plenty left.

Bob

I was never good at those "guess how many jelly beans in the jar" games. That's a lot of hair, much more than I would have guessed. My 31mm M&F must have a lot!
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Originally Posted by BobH

You are welcome. Pretty staggering number when you think about, eh. Even if the knot looses a few hundred hairs there is plenty left.

Bob

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I agree. Staggering.
I have a cheap badger here that sheds 3 or 4 hairs every time I use it. It has done so for about a year and a half, with no visible difference in denseness. If it were one of my Simpsons I'd have complained long ago, but it's price is not worth the bother. I think i've probably got several years before it begins to be a problem.

I was looking at some Fur info blogs and although that was useless for this question I found this statement which was pretty interesting keep in mind they are not talking about Badger Hair but Badger Fur but the coloring struck a chord with me that I found interesting

"Badger is long-haired and is generally used unplucked, except for the grotzen (the long, mane-like guard hairs running down the back), which is plucked. It’s a wild fur, with the color varying, depending on where the badger is from. The best badger has a natural silvery tint. Canadian badger is gray with pale white underfur, while badger from the US has gray guard hairs and creamy underfur. Asiatic (China) badger has a yellowish-brown underfur and gray guard hair. North American badger is softer and fuller than other badger. Badger is so durable that a coat can wear for years, given good care and regular cleaning"

Interesting, particularly the part about the North American badger fur being fuller and softer.

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Originally Posted by SRNewb

I agree. Staggering.
I have a cheap badger here that sheds 3 or 4 hairs every time I use it. It has done so for about a year and a half, with no visible difference in denseness. If it were one of my Simpsons I'd have complained long ago, but it's price is not worth the bother. I think i've probably got several years before it begins to be a problem.

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Yes, that is the attitude I am taking regarding when to worry about a knot shedding hairs.

For inexpensive Chinese badger knots I use to reknot vintage handles it is not as much problem/worry as it would be for that happening to a European hand tied knot.

For hand tied European badger knots there is no margin of error allowed for shedding at the price you have to pay for those. They had best be perfect.

Bob

Agreed. The only exception I would make is shedding for the first week. If it sheds 2 or 3 hairs a shave for the first week I'll just chalk those up to a few hairs that didn't get glued in due to the denseness of the knot. Beyond that is not acceptable, IMO.

Maybe we should have a contest. Only thing is who would count every hair in a brush?

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Maybe we should have a contest. Only thing is who would count every hair in a brush?

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I just did.14,345 hairs in a tgn 24mm grade A:)

That's weird, I counted 14,314 hairs in that one. Did you count down toward the knot so you didn't double count the split ends?

James.

Did you take into account natural shrinkage and the hairs that fell out during production that weren't replaced?