Printable View
So I just ordered a 24 mm HMW from Larry at whipped dog and am already second guessing myself. I've never had a high mountain and am wondering a couple things. Cost tho. I've heard nothing but great things about Larrys brushes so I was wondering if anyone riser here had one and what they thought. Second what's the deal with the high mountain Badger hair. .. is it as good as ST, should I have gone another way? I was originally going to get a 30mm but decided it may be too large. ..idk. Help! !
It is nothing but a marketing term. Three are three types of badger hair: black, grey, and silvertip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dramadon3151
Oddly enough the mainstream brush companies all have their own terminology for grades of badger hair. The 'high mountain white' was the top of the line for Plisson, and a brush would cost you hundreds of dollars.
The Simpson equivalent is 'Super', the Rooney was 'Finest', Kent , Thater and the others all have their own pet names for the high end stuff. I imagine the vendor wants to use the name recognition to push his product.
IME the old adage, "you get what you pay for" is usually the case. :gl:
I've only assembled a handful of brushes. All of my knots have come from Larry. I tend to set them fairly deep, as they otherwise tend to be fairly floppy. I expect it has something to do with the density of the hair. I will try some knots from other sources if I assemble any more, just to switch things up. I would hate to always do the same thing and then say it is the best I have experienced.
I chose not to set it deeper to because it said that it was just his ST that should be set deeper... You think it will be very spineless?
I'll probably buy one more At least from him. I want to get one of his fire house potter handled with the St 30mm. Set deep. Why not? His prices are great and the reviews are excellent as well. ....I just can't justify (to my wife) paying exorbitant amounts for animal hair shave brushes. One I may splurge on tho is the Saville row finest ST in a 24-26mm.....I just have to have one.
I have never had a chance to try a high end knot. At some point I hope I get a chance. I do have some brushes that have more expensive knots than larry's and they seem to be quite a bit nicer, I have no idea what lies above but I would like to find out!
But if you had to rate the whipped dog from 1-10....1 being escali type cheapo crap, 10 being Jesus' own beard hair in a brush. .. Where would you rate Larrys quality? And have your brushes shed much?
Silver tip (3 band) knots are the floppiest thing you will ever see. The only option to get some backbone from them is to set them deep. Simpsons makes a top notch Silver Tip (they call it Super Badger) knot with great backbone, a result of the very densely packed hairs. The price for those is very high though. Another maker that supposedly (I have not tried that type of knot) is Shavemac. Some compare their D01 silver tip to Simpson's Super badger.
Right here. Which, in all likelihood, is where your pal Larry sources his knots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dramadon3151
First off, I don't have any Whipped Dog brushes so I cannot give you an exact reply.
As others have stated, HMW, MW (Manchurian) and the like terms are just the made up and used by different manufacturers. As far as Larry's brushes go, it appears his HMW is what some others would call 2 band silver tip. 2 band silver tip hair has more *backbone* than the 3 band silver tip and so it is not as necessary to set it deeper in the handle. The tips should be as soft or even softer than the 3 band silver tip, but the shafts of the hair are stiffer, giving you a firm but soft feel.
For the money you paid for a 24mm brush from Whipped Dog, there is nothing to second guess. Just relax and enjoy when it arrives.
I spent almost $300 on a Rooney, it's a wonderful brush but I almost never use it.....<sigh> I much prefer my lower cost brushes that I can abuse without worry.
Regards
Christian aka
Kaptain "I may have to order one of those brushes myself...." Zero
mine have not shed. There is a failure rate though and a percentage of cheap brushes will shed. The cheaper the knot the higher the percentage. On the scale of brushes I cannot answer because I have only sampled the bottom 2/3 of the scale as far as I can tell.
When I first started using a brush I bought a bunch of custom made brushes and they were the cat's meow in the looks department and they all had big overstuffed knots of 3 band badger. They were also the floppiest brushes out there and I sold them all. I have several of the "real" two banders which you can't get anymore and some Manchurians which come close.
I agree you get what you pay for.
Buying any badger knot brush no matter the price point is a bit of a crap shoot. Generally the more you pay the less possibility that you will get a shedder but it is still there. Then like everyone has been saying every maker calls badger knots by different names making comparisons difficult.
Even if you get a 3 band silver tip it can vary from one maker to another on how it feels lathering. I have 2 three band silver tip brushes from different makers. The are close in size and loft. One which is bulb shaped has very soft tips and not so much backbone and the other which is fan shaped has tips that are not as soft but it has good backbone. Both work fine but I prefer the second one. Both shed the occasional hair also.
The 3 band with not so soft tips and good backbone has as much backbone as my Manchurian 2 band an shaped brush but the tips on the Manchurian feel softer.
With even just a little luck the brush you ordered should turn out to be serviceable and very likely have a face feel while lathering that you like.
Bob
Where is the fun in that?Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptain_zero
For me cheap brushes basically are not worth looking at with rare exceptions when a particular knot is made well actually.
I decided I am going all in on higher brushes and they perform and are pleasure to use. If you take proper care of your brush and especially if you rotate it will last for decades.
Shaun you've got to get yourself a nice expensive brush. I got a thater.. man I love my Boar brush I do.. but my plexiglass handle 28mm thater is just unreal. I would take my thater over a whipped dog any day especially since Robin pointed out he probably gets his knots for under $10. I see no joy in that and would rather use my Boar.Quote:
Originally Posted by RezDog
Perhaps I am more utilitarian, but I have never seen spending crazy money on a brush. I am very happy with my WD HMW brush. Is it luxurious as if sent from heaven, nah, not even close. But, it only sheds two or three hairs now and then, lathers great, and feels great on the face.
Not to mention, Larry is a good guy and his brush prices are very reasonable.
I have a HMW brush from Larry.... No issues with it. I can't see spending alot of money on a brush. I've never owned a high end badger brush. I'm sure all the brush companies get there goods from China. Buy 10k of em and only use 100 out of the bunch to meet their standards. Resell the ones they don't use.......lol
That statement shows that you should do some research.Quote:
Originally Posted by Willisf
Thater, Shavemac, Simpsons, Vie Long, Varlet, Wiborg, all make their own knots in house.
Get 10 That er knots of the same size and they will look the same and feel the same, get 10 TGN knots of the same kind and you will find out they are not quite identical in construction or feel. High end brushes cost more for a reason.
I think the question, "Why do I shave with a cut-throat razor" should be asked. My answer: "I like nostalgia." And part of that nostalgia is craftsmanship. They simply do not make things like vintage razors any more. Whenever I see a modern razor with a matt finish, I cannot help but think of the old craftsman who told me, "We had to learn matt finishing for four years." Yes, years. Which is why each time someone kills one of them in order to put a "shiny mirror finish" on a razor, I cringe inwardly.
So I could be driving a Landwind X7. It looks like a well known luxury SUV, and it will get you from A to B (probably, possibly). Same with Chinese import brushes, or knots. They may look like the real deal. But they are not. "High Mountain White" made in China is not the same as silvertip made in England, Germany, or Italy. Machine made is not the same as hand made.
Personally, I would much rather use a Frank Shaving synthetic (also China made, mind you) than one of these dubious looking "whiter than white" knots. At that price (taobao or alibaba, not US retailers with a 100-500% markup), it is not economically feasible that someone in China hand picked identical hairs to achieve that uniform look. There is a reason why Thäter brushes - which excel in the uniformity department - cost a bit more.
I just want to clear up a little. Larry's is advertised as a High Mountain not a HMW. I happen to actually have one. It is a good knot. It is not as dense or soft as the HMW's. I would not expect it to be either at the price Larry can market them. It is however a pleasure to use. I also have had a Whipped Dog Silvertip for a few years now. It is the best bang for the buck for someone wanting to try a silvertip. I also have some high end brushes/knots to compare them with, not just guessing.
Whipped Dog High Mountain
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...pse1lzjdwj.jpg
Thanks, but coming back to what I initially said, there is black, grey, and silvertip. Everything else is just marketing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lince
As an aside, a Whipped Dog Silvertip is most definitely not the best bang for the buck for someone wanting to try a silvertip. A Frank Shaving might be. At least, you get you what pay for, not something bulk imported with a 1-300% markup.
Oh, and while we are at it, why exactly is Larry not a member here?
I have three customs. All three have good knots in them, but they are not $300 knots. At some point I will find myself the top shelf brush that is all that, in the meantime I am pretty content with the selection I have. My whipped dog brush if a good travel brush now that I have the knot set just where I like it. I am pretty sure that Larry's knots come from Frank Shaving. They are not the bottom of the barrel, but nowhere near the top shelf either. I also had an inexpensive brush from Classic Shaving that was a nice brush, my nephew decided he would like to get into using a brush, so it went to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by S0LITARYS0LDIER
That is some positive information for when I next go brush shopping. I question That I have pondered once or twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
For brushes being sold new now that's pretty much right but the Manchurians are very different than most basic silvertips and if you are looking at brushes like the classic Rooney Finest 2 banders those are very different than any silvertip I've ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinK
Yes , yes.... I'm sure you are right. Was just a thought and suggestion. I'm sure if you get 10 of the high end knots, you'd get the same thing. Some are better than others or have a minor defect, yet they are supposed to be the same item.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
But why? There is no evidence to suggest that you are even remotely right. If you were, there would be hundreds of "I just mis-spent US$ on a defective high end brush" threads. But there are next to none, and the few you will find typically contain a major user error.Quote:
Originally Posted by Willisf
It has been said before, but I shall say it again: You get what you pay for. If you want top craftsmanship, and, more importantly, a brush that has been made by fully trained professionals, it will cost you extra. But it will be an item to be cherished. Like a bespoke suit, a Swiss watch, or German beer.
If, however, you want something with a fancy name and a massive markup applied by your retailer of choice, you know where to get it. Like a counterfeit adidas track suit, a Casio replica watch, or Chinese beer.
Chinese make some damn fine beer.
Tsingtao?Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Bob
I have been to the Tsingtao brewery. It has an interesting history.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Yes, I'll bet it has an interesting history. Hard to go wrong making beer when the brewery was founded by Germans. I recall it being a pretty good tasting beer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ericd
Bob
Here it is guys. My new high mountain 24mm from the whipped dog. It's pretty nice looking and doesn't seem vertu floppy. Of course I haven't used it yet. Just some initial observances straight out of the package. Attachment 222383
For clarification, you will find out if a brush is floppy or not when you wet it, and especially after some time when it breaks in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dramadon3151
Ahhh... Should whip up some awsome lather.
Careful... Your pooch has its eyes on it too. he he [emoji1]
You should build a couple of bowls of lather with it just to make sure it is good and clean. It doesn't matter what soap you use to start with as you are simply cleaning the brush, so use tour least favorite soap, after you give it a good wash with oxyclean. After a few rounds it ill be time to break out the good stuff and see how floppy it is or how much backbone it has. Because it has a solid plastic handle you will actual be able to remove the knot and change the set. It is not to difficult but kind of requires the use of a drill press, and a pot of boiling water.
Yeah, I have a decent drill press so I was thinking about that. If it proves to be floppy I'll set it deeper. This week in gonna be getting a saville row finest silver tip. Not really sure which make yet tho. ... anyone know of a good make from them?
If you look back at post 19 the top shelf brushes are listed there. If you look at the post by BobH in this thread it will have a video link in it highlighting how to remove a knot without harming the knot or a solid plastic handle.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/brush...ible-task.html
Have not had the chance to try the WD HMW. I've got a WD Silvertip. Actually it's the second one as the first shed like crazy and Larry took care of that no problem. It's a little floppy even set at a shorter loft and I think that's because it's not very dense. I have a Thater and shavemac Silvertip and they both have much more backbone. I'd like to give the WD HMW a try but I'm not keen on the handles he offers and I don't want to go through the trouble of either finding a good handle and setting the knot myself or sending the knot to someone else to put into one of their own handles. Too many good off the shelf options for me to choose from.
