Rooney Heritage Stubby opinion?

I didn't want to hijack the other Rooney thread so I decided to make my own ;)

I've seen many people being happy with their Rooney Heritage Stubby brushes but I'm a bit (OK, quite) hesitant to pull the trigger and order one. $200 plus for a brush and just the slight possibility of it being a shedder keeps me back from ordering one. First of all, who makes them? Where are they located? what proof is there that their brushes are even made in England? They have no web presence and in 2016 that's unacceptable. If you don't have a webpage, no customer service to back up your products, no email or physical address to complain, no Facebook, no Twitter, nada...it just seems fishy. I know Vulfix stands firm behind their products (Simpsons included) and their customer service is good. It seems to me the present day Roonies are just a shadow of their former selves. What do you guys think? What was popular five or ten years ago is not relevant today. Is that the case with these brushes?

Get a Simpson in Super and be happy.
From my readings on different forums it is not quite clear what is going on with Rooney.

You could get a box of vintage brushes and new knots for that :<0) Just saying, I never read the other Rooney thread but it sounds like too much chance of a shed for the bucks by the way you talk about it.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Get a Simpson in Super and be happy.
From my readings on different forums it is not quite clear what is going on with Rooney.

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You're reading my mind lol. Cheers!

I think anyone contemplating buying a Rooney brush today has every right to be worried because of exactly what you are saying about the company. Like Stefan, I have read on other forums that it is not clear what is going on with the company today. Despite that I thought I would take a chance on one anyway.

If you want to be on safer ground go with a company that is not so much of a mystery. Stephan has suggested Simpsons in Super and I would add Shavemac in 2 band Silvertip to that. Thater is another company who's brushes get recommended a lot. There are lots of good choices from less enigmatic companies.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

I think anyone contemplating buying a Rooney brush today has every right to be worried because of exactly what you are saying about the company. Like Stefan, I have read on other forums that it is not clear what is going on with the company today. Despite that I thought I would take a chance on one anyway.

If you want to be on safer ground go with a company that is not so much of a mystery. Stephan has suggested Simpsons in Super and I would add Shavemac in 2 band Silvertip to that. Thater is another company who's brushes get recommended a lot. There are lots of good choices from less enigmatic companies.

Bob

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+1 Bob. Couldn't have said it better. I'm looking into Thater/Shavemac/Simpsons. We'll see, but the devil you know is probably better than the one you don't know (an old saying). Cheers!

Gentlemen,

I have the Rooney Stubby 3 and like it.

I wish the tips were a wee bit softer — there is a hint of a scritch. This brush has a dense 28mm knot, I believe a 50-53mm loft, and with good backbone. No, the density is nothing like that in the Simpson Chubby. Still, the brush is dense enough, but it does splay somewhat, which I like. Mine has shed a total of five or six hairs, if even that, and I've had it for a few months.

Indeed, Rooney is embroiled in mystery, but I've stopped trying to solve it.

I've had a Stubby 2 since it was first brought out about a decade ago and it is still my most expensive brush. It has never shed a hair.

I have had 2 out of 3 Simpson brushes become shedders, one I gave up on and the other was replaced by Simpson (Vulfix actually) and while the new one did not shed, it was nothing like the orginal, which was from the pre-Vulfix era, less dense and much more scritchy and it was promptly sold off.

Select a dealer who stands behind the products they sell and if it turns out to be a shedder (Any manufacturer can run into this problem as the hair is a natural product and sometimes it may look fine but breaks too easy, something that is only discovered after using it for a while) they should take care of it for you.

It's nice to be able to contact the manufacturer directly, such as Simpson, but I would not hesitate in buying another Rooney from a decent dealer.

In the meantime, I'm trying two Chinese sourced knots, one was assembled with handle, the other I glued into a handle from Whipped Dog. I would normally turn something up on my lathe, but the shop is not heated and I'm getting wussy about standing out in the cold. So far it has been very interesting, the knots appear quite nice and the hair grade is excellent. The shape is perhaps not as nice as a high end brush made by one of the big makers, but one of my Simpson brushes did have a typical plug knot so they probably out sourced it as well... none of the hand whipped stuff was found, but then it was a sub $100 brush.

I would simply ask the dealer as to their support after purchase, if it's positive then I'd go for it... If not, look elsewhere or at a different brand, or try your hand at making your own!


Regards

Christian

The current Simpsons owners make a big deal out of claiming hand tied knots. They even have a vid out showing how they do it. Was that a recent made Simpsons?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZziZnOCBdLQ

Bob

I'd agree with the others, Rooney has always been an outlier and these days the management is in question so I'd use caution in considering them. There are others that are just as good.

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Originally Posted by BobH

The current Simpsons owners make a big deal out of claiming hand tied knots. They even have a vid out showing how they do it. Was that a recent made Simpsons?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZziZnOCBdLQ

Bob

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That job looks mighty monotonous!

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Originally Posted by Firefighter2

That job looks mighty monotonous!

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Most production line work is like that. Mercifully we have managed to either automate or off shore most of those dreary monotonous jobs. That has reduced our stress levels and allowed us to enjoy our now plentiful leisure time gainfully employed shopping and driving the economy. I don't know about you but I am glad we do not torture that many people like that anymore.

Sorry, could not resist a little tongue in cheek there. :hmmm: :D

Bob

This would be a Vulfix made Simpson XL2 in Best Badger... I broke the handle when trying to remove the knot so I could glue something else in. I've had it for about 10 years and it started to shed, first a few hairs each time and by the time it got to 10+ hairs after each use, I figured it had served me well and I might as well try a Chinese knot in it. I should have used the steam heat method, I tried the "plonk it in a vice and have at it" method with the following result....

Note the "plug" sits on top of a pad of glue about the same thickness but in a darker color. I see no string anywhere in this knot, but again... it's a sub $100 brush, I hardly think they could spend the time doing knotting by hand... The higher end brushes would be a different story.

Attachment 223372


Regards

Christian

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Originally Posted by Obie

Gentlemen,

I have the Rooney Stubby 3 and like it.

I wish the tips were a wee bit softer — there is a hint of a scritch. This brush has a dense 28mm knot, I believe a 50-53mm loft, and with good backbone. No, the density is nothing like that in the Simpson Chubby. Still, the brush is dense enough, but it does splay somewhat, which I like. Mine has shed a total of five or six hairs, if even that, and I've had it for a few months.

Indeed, Rooney is embroiled in mystery, but I've stopped trying to solve it.

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Obie - out of curiosity, which vendor did you purchase your Rooney from?

Welcome Rachmaninov. Can't help with the brush, but like the avatar...

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Originally Posted by Grazor

Welcome Rachmaninov. Can't help with the brush, but like the avatar...

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TYVM for the welcome.

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Originally Posted by Rachmaninov

Obie - out of curiosity, which vendor did you purchase your Rooney from?

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I purchased it from the Canadian vendor Fendrihan.
By the way, welcome to Straight Razor Place.

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Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

This would be a Vulfix made Simpson XL2 in Best Badger... I broke the handle when trying to remove the knot so I could glue something else in. I've had it for about 10 years and it started to shed, first a few hairs each time and by the time it got to 10+ hairs after each use, I figured it had served me well and I might as well try a Chinese knot in it. I should have used the steam heat method, I tried the "plonk it in a vice and have at it" method with the following result....

Note the "plug" sits on top of a pad of glue about the same thickness but in a darker color. I see no string anywhere in this knot, but again... it's a sub $100 brush, I hardly think they could spend the time doing knotting by hand... The higher end brushes would be a different story.

Regards

Christian

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Thanks for posting that photo, isn't that interesting. I wonder if they have changed to all hand tied in the intervening 10 years. IIRC some of the senior members on here had said Simpsons had trouble with shedding knots at one time. It sure looks like any aftermarket Chinese import knot I have used. They have all had just the glue plug.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Obie

I purchased it from the Canadian vendor Fendrihan.
By the way, welcome to Straight Razor Place.

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TY Kindly!

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Originally Posted by Obie

Gentlemen,

I have the Rooney Stubby 3 and like it.

I wish the tips were a wee bit softer — there is a hint of a scritch. This brush has a dense 28mm knot, I believe a 50-53mm loft, and with good backbone. No, the density is nothing like that in the Simpson Chubby. Still, the brush is dense enough, but it does splay somewhat, which I like. Mine has shed a total of five or six hairs, if even that, and I've had it for a few months.

*Indeed, Rooney is embroiled in mystery, but I've stopped trying to solve it.

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Obie - when you're not too busy, would you please post a few pictures of your Stubby 3? thank you!

*Wasn't Lee Sabatini (sp) the maker of Rooney?

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Originally Posted by Rachmaninov

Obie - when you're not too busy, would you please post a few pictures of your Stubby 3? thank you!

*Wasn't Lee Sabatini (sp) the maker of Rooney?

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To my knowledge, Rachmaninov, Lee Sabini was the maker of the Rooney. Still is, I think. With Rooney brushes, you never know who makes what. All so bloody mysterious. Here a photo of my Rooney from SOTD.

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Originally Posted by Obie

To my knowledge, Rachmaninov, Lee Sabini was the maker of the Rooney. Still is, I think. With Rooney brushes, you never know who makes what. All so bloody mysterious. Here a photo of my Rooney from SOTD.

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Very nice Obie. Yes sorry, Sabini. Those 3 rings look mighty fancy! And that white porcelain bowl you have there in the background that is pretty classy looking. If only I wasn't so clumsy, I break everything that's porcelain :nono:

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Originally Posted by Rachmaninov

Very nice Obie. Yes sorry, Sabini. Those 3 rings look mighty fancy!

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Yes, the Rooney Stubby 3 is a handsome brush and has an ergonomic handle. I do like my Rooney and it's a keeper for me. I do not fancy extremely dense brushes with a tough backbone, like the Simpson Chubby. The Rooney "Heritage" Stubby 3 is less dense than the Chubby and with a more modest backbone. That's why I prefer it to the Chubby. The softness of the tips is comparable to that of the Chubby super.

So Mr. Sabini was indeed working for Rooney. Apparently after he left the quality went downhill.

Here's what I found Lee Charles Sabini (Robert Alexander Rooney & Sons Ltd) - Director Profile

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Originally Posted by Rachmaninov

So Mr. Sabini was indeed working for Rooney. Apparently after he left the quality went downhill.

Here's what I found Lee Charles Sabini (Robert Alexander Rooney & Sons Ltd) - Director Profile

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I have owned several Rooney brushes, but the "Heritage" Stubby 3 is the only one I have left. This probably will be my one and only Rooney. All my Simpson brushes are gone and I doubt I will purchase another one. I prefer Thater, shavemac and Savile Row silvertips.

Oh, I also have a Wieborg on order since last July, and I might get it sometime this year. Looking forward to it.

But back to the Rooney, mine is a good brush and worthy of my humble shave den.

I really like the Rooney and Morris & Forndran brushes. I may be wrong but to me they are one and the same by Lee Sabini. What puts me off is Lees elusive status, although I have not tried to contact him myself I have read many posts with people claiming they cant correspond with him. To me that is bad customer service. On the other hand I have emailed and called Mark Waterson from Simpson and he was more than helpful, he even said for value and performance you couldn't beat Simpsons best hair over their Manchurian. Of course I still went for the Manchurian!

I do not have a lot of top line badger brushes but from that limited experience I would say that it is very easy to directly contact Mark Waterson at Simpsons and Bernd Blos at Shavemac. It does not get much better than that when dealing with a manufacturer imo.

I really like the 1 Simpsons Manchurian brush I have but unfortunately to get a Polo8 Manchurian is way out of my price point. I like taller handles. The Shavemac 2 band Silvertip has been a very nice knot and plays at the same level as the Manchurian as far as I am concerned. The two knots may be a bit different but both are oh so good for me.

I took a chance on the Rooney Victorian mainly because I have always loved the look of that long handle. Turns out that the knot that came with the Victorian has a very good feel for me although I'd rank the feel just below the Manchurian and Shavemac I have. Worst case scenario, if the Rooney knot does turn out to be a shedder I can tell you it will almost certainly be replaced with a Shavemac 2 band Silvertip.

If you are looking specifically for a Chubby/Stubby type of handle I'd go to the Shavemac site and configure a brush with their version of that type of handle with a knot the size and loft you want in the grade of badger you want. I think it would be worth a look. Alternately there are a number of reputable custom brush makers that will do a clone of the Chubby/Stubby style handle and install a knot of your choice including Shavemac.

Bob

Just had a shave with my Rooney Emilion 1 Super Badger, also have the Emilion 2 which is a tad to big for my liking, but both brushes have been superb, not a single issue with either in the stellar shave experience or shedding.

Personally, I like a little "scritch" and they are the closest brush to my Morris & Forndran in terms of backbone, lathering and a good scrubbing action on the face.

The same came be said for the stellar Simpson's Chubby 1 Super Badger, awesome brush, but the tips are much softer, but personally, there is no better face latherer than the Simpson's Chubby 1 SB - in my opinion of course!;)

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Originally Posted by BobH

I do not have a lot of top line badger brushes but from that limited experience I would say that it is very easy to directly contact Mark Waterson at Simpsons and Bernd Blos at Shavemac. It does not get much better than that when dealing with a manufacturer imo.

I really like the 1 Simpsons Manchurian brush I have but unfortunately to get a Polo8 Manchurian is way out of my price point. I like taller handles. The Shavemac 2 band Silvertip has been a very nice knot and plays at the same level as the Manchurian as far as I am concerned. The two knots may be a bit different but both are oh so good for me.

I took a chance on the Rooney Victorian mainly because I have always loved the look of that long handle. Turns out that the knot that came with the Victorian has a very good feel for me although I'd rank the feel just below the Manchurian and Shavemac I have. Worst case scenario, if the Rooney knot does turn out to be a shedder I can tell you it will almost certainly be replaced with a Shavemac 2 band Silvertip.

If you are looking specifically for a Chubby/Stubby type of handle I'd go to the Shavemac site and configure a brush with their version of that type of handle with a knot the size and loft you want in the grade of badger you want. I think it would be worth a look. Alternately there are a number of reputable custom brush makers that will do a clone of the Chubby/Stubby style handle and install a knot of your choice including Shavemac.

Bob

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Simpson install knots in custom handles. Just talk to Mark and ask for the specs of the knot hole.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Simpson install knots in custom handles. Just talk to Mark and ask for the specs of the knot hole.

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Yes, I have heard that they do that but also have heard it has been very hard to get custom work done lately too. For sure that is another viable option.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

Yes, I have heard that they do that but also have heard it has been very hard to get custom work done lately too. For sure that is another viable option.

Bob

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I think they just do not take orders for custom made handles. When I asked about handle dimensions for Chubby 2 knot, Mark just told me what they need to be he did not say they were not taking those jobs. I know of several fellows on FB that recently got knots installed in handles they provided.

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I think they just do not take orders for custom made handles. When I asked about handle dimensions for Chubby 2 knot, Mark just told me what they need to be he did not say they were not taking those jobs. I know of several fellows on FB that recently got knots installed in handles they provided.

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The only thing Mark wont do is sell the knots by themselves.

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Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

I really like the Rooney and Morris & Forndran brushes. I may be wrong but to me they are one and the same by Lee Sabini. What puts me off is Lees elusive status, although I have not tried to contact him myself I have read many posts with people claiming they cant correspond with him. To me that is bad customer service. On the other hand I have emailed and called Mark Waterson from Simpson and he was more than helpful, he even said for value and performance you couldn't beat Simpsons best hair over their Manchurian. Of course I still went for the Manchurian!

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Could be a sign of mental illness as well.

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Originally Posted by BobH

Thanks for posting that photo, isn't that interesting. I wonder if they have changed to all hand tied in the intervening 10 years. IIRC some of the senior members on here had said Simpsons had trouble with shedding knots at one time. It sure looks like any aftermarket Chinese import knot I have used. They have all had just the glue plug.

Bob

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I can remember a recent thread regarding mainly this issue that generated some heat. In the end, I thought it was agreed upon that you cannot infer the production process by merely looking at the end product and that it is possible to both hand tie a brush knot and end up with a glue/epoxy knot. My memory must be deceiving me then.

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Originally Posted by Rachmaninov

Could be a sign of mental illness as well.

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Really? Wow. Maybe less speculation would be better. There are limits to good taste.