Simpson Duke 3 is first real badger brush I used and I don't think I like it

Hi.

I'm new to wet shaving and only really used boar brushes and a synthetic. I wanted to know the big deal with badger brushes so I decided to take the risk on a Simpson Duke 3 after a lot of research. I figured I would love the brush because it cost so much. Well, the first time I used it I didn't really like it. I did about 9 palm lather/dry cycles with it and tried it out afterwards in hopes that it get better. It still has a little more scratch than I like. I THINK part of that is because it is very densely packed and has a short loft. I am use to the generally higher loft of my boar brushes which I am still very much breaking in and their splay as well. Im also finding it a little short for painting like I'm use to. I am a little distressed as I expected to instantly love any brush at the price I paid for it but it just doesn't seem to be my thing at this point. I don't want to give up on badger but the prices seem too risky to be taking chances like this. Is it odd to try to sell a brush so I can look for another brush? Thank you.

I don't know if it is odd to sell a used brush or not. Personally I wouldn't buy a used brush. To me it would be like using some one else's toothbrush.

I'm not a big fan of badger brushes although I do use them for certain soap concoctions that I add a cream to. Boar is still my all around favorite.

I think it is a bit of a leap to assume you will like something based on price, however the only way to find out is to try.
People do buy secondhand brushes, considering it has only been used a few times it may be easier to resell.

I've bought and sold used brushes for years. No toothbrushes though thank you. The thing is the short loft probably. See I love scritchy brushes. If it is a soft tip you are looking for in a badger go for a 58-60mm loft and you'll see a big difference, at least that is my experience. Also, try a Thater. They have great backbone but no scritch.

With badger brushes you have to know what characteristics you want from a brush. There are a few different grades of badger knots and they all are a bit different in the way they feel on the face. It also depends somewhat on whether you are a bowl or face latherer as far as what loft to get. The Simpsons Duke 3 is available in Pure and Best badger grades currently. I don't have any of those grades of badger but it is my understanding that Pure, the lowest grade, has more scratchiness than Best grade. You really can't go by what the badger knot costs as to whether you will like it or not. Unfortunately you may have to try a few different grades of badger before you find one that you like.

People do buy used brushes so it should be no problem to sell yours.

Bob

I wouldn't be in so big a hurry to sell. You'll take a bath on selling a used brush and if you use it a few times more it won't matter resale wise. Just give it some time.

I bought a Duke3 in Best years back and at first, didn't like it, but I'm a 2 band Super guy. As I used it more and more, I came to appreciate it for what it is ... and what it is not! I don't know what grade of hair you've got, but I agree ... give it a chance...

BTW, there's a Duke# in Manchurian in the Classifieds right now .. Beautiful brush!

Thank you again for your replies. I wanted to sell it before but I decided to palm lather it a few times to see if it gets better for me. I did about 8 palm lather/dry cycles before I decided it wasn't for me. I took a look at some thater brushes and they look quite expensive for me right now but I will consider them in the future. I might try out the semogue soc 2 band. It was my runner up before the Duke 3 and I know I like the handle.

I forgot to add that my Simpson Duke 3 is in best.

Yea that's the problem, you got the stiffer cheaper knot, if you would have stepped up and got a better grade it would have softer tips, it don't matter which brand you buy, the lower end knots are going to be stiff and prickly, some like this, some don't, dollar wise you will spend more for a better knot, but that ain't what you ordered, maybe they would swap it out for you fir a softer knot, Tc

The Best hair grade from Simpson is sort of their mid grade level. It's not known for being super scratchy or scritchy like the Pure, but it is definitely not as soft as their Super (widely available) or their 2 Band (very rare.) I have a Polo 10 in Best that took a while to "soften up." Though it no longer has any detectable scritch (I hate any form of scritch) it is still not as soft as some of my softer high end brushes (Morris and Forndran Blonde Badger, Thater 2 band and 2 Wiborg White Badgers.)

I own a Semogue OC Two band which also took some time to "soften up." The most recent Semogue OC 2 bands that they are shipping out are a far cry from the ones a few years ago that were unbearably scritchy and didn't change too much in characteristics over time, unlike the first few that they sent out that were wonderfully soft brushes. I would say my current SOC is pleasant to use, comparable in softness to the Simpsons Best I have but not as soft tipped as my aforementioned brushes.

If you want to get a soft tipped brush with plenty of backbone, I would steer you in the direction of the Shavemac 2 band hair that is currently being offered. It is a very good "value" brush. Notice I didn't say necessarily cheap. But for the price it is really hard to beat with many other comparable manufacturers charging much more for comparable quality. You can either buy from Shavemac directly, specifying that you want the 2 band Silvertip (NOT the D01 band!) or you can order from one of the handle making artisans that carry that knot, like Rudy Vey.

If you want a very soft tipped brush with not too much backbone (medium to low depending on the type of hair you get,) I would go the Thater or Savile Row route. If you have a bit more money and want the ultimate soft tips with a good amount of backbone, do a custom order with Shavemac or Wiborg. Just set the knot a little lower and get a bulb shape. Florian Arnold at Wiborg or Bernd Blos at Shavemac, the owners could help with that.

As to what to do with your Duke 3. I would advise using it some more. To aid the softening of the tips, after use and washing out thoroughly, make sure to brush it vigorously each time on a dry towel with circular and paint brush motions. Some have even reported success with rougher tipped brushes with using it lightly a few times on sandpaper...not sure if I would go down that route unless you are really desperate. I have never tried it. Though I have brushed some of my "rougher" brushes when new on the fabric component of my razor strops, one a linen and the other the Kanayama Canvas which is quite rough. :) That also seemed to help.

I still own and have used some of the best boar brushes out there. But nothing, and I do mean nothing compares to a truly high end soft tipped badger with plenty of backbone. That is just my own 2c worth. Perhaps since it would be a Canadian 2c you could argue it is even much less... :gl:

Attila, in your discussion of the Shavemac 2B, you mention 'NOT the D01 band!'. I'm curious to hear your explanation. I have a 22x46 D01 2B fan. My first use was awful; felt like straw on my face. After many (50+) uses it has turned out to be a comfortable brush, not soft yet not scritchy. My complaint with it is the flow through. It is so dense and has such backbone that it doesn't hold water or lather. I almost always end up with water and lather running down my hand and arm; it's a messy brush. Anyone else find this? I'm getting a little better with it by not soaking the brush and ensuring it is well shaken before hitting the soap jar, and I do still enjoy the brush, but it behaves much differently than my others.

Regarding the OP: I agree that using it will soften it. All of my brushes were broken in after 20 uses. Enjoy it; you'll end up buying another...

I was always under the impression that badger brushes don't really soften up/break in after about 2 weeks of use. Will I have a harder time selling it if I used it more? Also, if I do decide to break it in more, should I palm lather it everyday or every other day like a boar?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ponypox

I was always under the impression that badger brushes don't really soften up/break in after about 2 weeks of use. Will I have a harder time selling it if I used it more? Also, if I do decide to break it in more, should I palm lather it everyday or every other day like a boar?

---

How long have you been using shaving brushes to lather ? What is it that you expected that you're not getting ? IME I had to go through dozens of brushes literally to find a few I really like. Those that came, weren't 'my thing', and went. were good shaving brushes, and other people enjoy them...... or they move them and get something else too.

Point is, Simpson in Best, Super, and the formerly rare, and now ubiquitous Manchurian, are all first class, top of the line brushes. As far as breaking them in ......... my many years old Rooney Finest, Simpson Super Persian Jar, and Simpson Super Polo 8 are as delightfully scritchy as the day I got them, and two of the three were used when I got them 5 or 6 years ago !

You have to find the diameter knot that you like, the loft based on the type of lathering you do. It is a hassle but to find the optimum brush you have to experiment. Same with the optimum size/grind of razor. Part of the trip. OTOH, I used the same Hoffritz For Cutlery badger for 35 years before I ever bought another brush. Got along fine up until then.

You might find that the Duke 3 works for you if you get used to it. :gl:

I guess I just don't like scritchy brushes. I'll just buy/sell until I'm content with what I have and consider it part of the experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ponypox

I guess I just don't like scritchy brushes. I'll just buy/sell until I'm content with what I have and consider it part of the experience.

---

Yes, that is the way I had to go too, just keep trying till you find one that works for you. I got lucky and found that a Simpsons Manchurian bought a few years ago ticked all the boxes and a Shavemac custom regular 2 band Silvertip (not the DO1) bought recently did too. I face lather and both gave me the soft tips and backbone that I liked. I'd agree with everything Attila had to say about that Shavemac knot.

Bob

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cau

Attila, in your discussion of the Shavemac 2B, you mention 'NOT the D01 band!'. I'm curious to hear your explanation. I have a 22x46 D01 2B fan. My first use was awful; felt like straw on my face. After many (50+) uses it has turned out to be a comfortable brush, not soft yet not scritchy.

---

My explanation would be the same as yours. Some really like the D01 knots. They're not my cup of tea...

I'm willing to give up a bit of backbone for MUCH softer tips. The density of the D01 is the main reason why it doesn't release lather so easily and is a LOT scrubbier than pretty much anything else out there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ponypox

I guess I just don't like scritchy brushes. I'll just buy/sell until I'm content with what I have and consider it part of the experience.

---

Well just going by my experience I'd say a 3 band will be softer than a 2 band and if you want soft tips and backbone the Thater 2 band gave me both. I tried 4 of them searching for scritch and no soap ...... figuratively speaking ....... I had a Shavemac D01 and I didn't find that scritchy either. Sold it. I guess I ain't easy to please.

Might try getting a custom done up for you. Describe what you do , what you want, to someone with lots of experience making guys happy.
I wouldn't get rid of what you got though. You may find later that the brush gives you a change you will enjoy once in awhile. I have a full spectrum of brushes and even though I would say some are my "go to" brushes there are those days when I do enjoy doing things a little different. Call it the spice of life :<0)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ponypox

Hi.

I'm new to wet shaving and only really used boar brushes and a synthetic. I wanted to know the big deal with badger brushes so I decided to take the risk on a Simpson Duke 3 after a lot of research. I figured I would love the brush because it cost so much. Well, the first time I used it I didn't really like it. I did about 9 palm lather/dry cycles with it and tried it out afterwards in hopes that it get better. It still has a little more scratch than I like. I THINK part of that is because it is very densely packed and has a short loft. I am use to the generally higher loft of my boar brushes which I am still very much breaking in and their splay as well. Im also finding it a little short for painting like I'm use to. I am a little distressed as I expected to instantly love any brush at the price I paid for it but it just doesn't seem to be my thing at this point. I don't want to give up on badger but the prices seem too risky to be taking chances like this. Is it odd to try to sell a brush so I can look for another brush? Thank you.

---

I do not see correlation between price and love. What you have experienced is the fact that you have to find the brush you like, which means the knot type the loft, the density you like. That is the YMMV part in the hobby, it will take a bunch of trial and error before you get it right for you.
You will have similar experience with soaps, razors, and to much less extent with after shaves.

Selling used brushes is not odd, lots of people do it, once it is washed with shampoo it is clean.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mainaman

I do not see correlation between price and love. What you have experienced is the fact that you have to find the brush you like, which means the knot type the loft, the density you like. That is the YMMV part in the hobby, it will take a bunch of trial and error before you get it right for you.
You will have similar experience with soaps, razors, and to much less extent with after shaves.

Selling used brushes is not odd, lots of people do it, once it is washed with shampoo it is clean.

---

LOL - right on....and add to that your tastes change and evolve....never thought I'd like a boar brush, now I can't believe what I've been missing...you're right, total YMMV, especially over time.:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ponypox

I guess I just don't like scritchy brushes. I'll just buy/sell until I'm content with what I have and consider it part of the experience.

---

It is the natural way of the brush related part of the hobby.