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So you go out and buy that custom brush you have lusted over and it arrives and it's just what you have always dreamed of. It's gorgeous I mean the most beautiful thing you have ever seen and then you realize the business end is like a marshmallow and so floppy...well it's mighty floppy.
So what is more important to you the business end or the Hollywood end? Would you keep the brush or send it back?
If a brush didnt perform no matter how beautiful it was it would have to go. Same goes with a razor shaped object, function over form for me.
The items performance is more important than the looks
If i ordered a custom anything and it was not up to the job required job I would not be happy.
But if it was to my ordered specifications I have no one else to blame.
I would personally expect that the maker would express any concerns if the design was flawed before proceeding to a finished project
You would hope that by the time someone orders a custom brush that they have used enough brushes to know exactly what they want in a knot and a handle. Also that they have communicated that to the brush maker in very specific terms and it is understood by the brush maker.
If I order a custom brush specifying a low lofted 2 band badger knot having soft tips and good backbone and received a very floppy knot instead there would be words spoken and the problem rectified. So far that has not been necessary, thankfully. Same would be true if that knot was to my liking but the handle was not as I had ordered.
Bob
Business end. I have parted with many a beautiful handle because the top side was not to my liking. Brushes are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you'll get until it's loaded with lather. I have all but given up trusting a hair type is stiffer, or softer, that low loft is going to give a brush more backbone. I just buy it, hope it's right for me and sell it if it's not.
I can't deal with a brush that has a funky handle. I truly love the "Barber Style" handles and those similar to the L7 design. Don't like "Chubby" handles at all....
For me, absolutely the business end. I like a good backbone and a fair amount of scritch. I don't want to feel like I'm lathering up with a wet cotton ball!
Pete <:-}
To me the knot is what matters. The reason I am very hesitant to buy custom brushes is because most knots are not at all to par with my preferences.
Recently I have been sending stock brushes with knots I like out to have the knot extracted and replanted in a custom handle.
It's all about the business end. Get knot changed problem solved.
I have had brushes that were not up to my standard even after speaking with the maker and making sure the knot is set low enough to have good backbone. What was good backbone for the maker was a mop for me, however I could only go by the maker's word on the knot since it was a knot they offered as being their select knot for the its properties and performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
To me the best bet right now is to have knots transplanted in better handles. It is more expensive but at least I know what I am getting.
That's the thing. You can design a handle and it should (better) be exactly the way you designed it since drawings and pics would be going back and forth but the knot you just never know because as they say what is stiff to you may be soft to someone else and you probably can't specify the source of the knot or would you do that too as part of the design process. That way you have better control of the finished product. However wouldn't that be like telling the maker where you want him to source the raw materials for the handle?Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
Would it be too out of line to ask the maker to send you all the raw materials, handle and knot for inspection before the thing is made for your approval?
Do you think you should have to reknot a brand new custom brush because you don't like the knot?
I love floopy knots. :shrug:
I had a Kent BK2 and I was happy with it and it performed well as a face latherer , I then brought a Manchurian Duke 3, since using the Duke the Kent feels like a wet fish, I couldnt stand how floppy it was so gave it away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
Yup, for sure that is another way to do it. OTH I have had to go through a number of brushes from different makers to find the type of badger knot I preferred. That let me know the approximate loft to size ratio for that particular grade badger. So far so good with badgers I have custom ordered. Much the same with synthetic knots. The first good one from a maker I got was a bit too floppy for me and I had the knot reset lower in a custom brush for a good result. The other synthetics I had custom done, knots from different makers, were all set similarly according to size of knot and all came out well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
I don't think it is at all out of place to ask a private custom brush maker if they can source a particular knot that you like. If they can't then you don't have to order and take a chance. I think that is particularly important with badger knots and not so important with synthetics.
Bob
From my experience so far that would be the best course of action. One could then play with the loft and see what works best assuming the knot is to the liking of the customer.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
The solution to those who are very fussy about just the right backbone the Shavemac "Moss Brush" might have been the answer. Reminds me of having a "try gun stock" to get the proper fit for a shotgun to a particular user. Once you get it fitting properly the dimensions are taken and a custom stock is made.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/brush...-version2.html
Bob
as a beginner brush maker i read this with great interest. would it be possible for a maker to leave the hole extra deep and then include spacers so that the user could play with the height and then glue the knot in themselves? i've also thought of mounting the knot with magnets to make removal (if necessary) easier.
Getting the loft right is only part of the problem. The other part is having the right type/grade of badger knot to give the right feel when lathering as in very soft tips and no scritch/scratch or with scritch/scratch or shades in between. The interpretation of those qualities varies person to person using the same knot. Sometimes you get a swing and a miss and other times you get a home run.
Bob
Most knots are not stuffed very well and that is a big factor for the backbone. Not many make well constructed knots IMHO.
I have just come back from a meet that Skipnord made me a brush handle and I bought another from him. Very good lesson and very good work.
I will mount my own knots.
I read a thread like this and it keeps me from trying to sell my own.
If I did I would sell the handle and the knot with a little glue and say set it where you want it. Don't blame me.
The custom buyers are dreamers and can't do it themselves.
I generally only do factory brushes though I have done a few customs because of the handles. I ended up selling all but one because the tips on the customs were too soft and I want scritch. The one I kept I'm thinking of sending to Bern (Shavemac) for a 48x23 with scritchy tips. If anything is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates, it is shaving brushes. :shrug:
Exactly right. Someone could ask for a shavemac, silvertip 2 band, fan shape, 26mm knot size, set at 55mm and still not be happy because the feeling on their fizzog didnt feel right. We all know no 2 batches from the same supplier is the same, because unfortunately, no two badgers are the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
I was with you right up to the last line.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Bob
so how is it any different than buying a off the shelf brush? you still don't know how it's going to feel till you try it. you are just getting a better looking handle.
Thats the problem, you just dont know until its in your hand and on your face, even then it can take a while to settle in.Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin
That is easy, you try off the shelf brushes till you find a knot type/grade that you like at a particular loft setting relative to the knot size. Once you know roughly what knot you like by that method you can specify that knot type and loft setting to the custom brush maker. The other way is to do like mainaman and send the factory brush with the right knot out to have it reset in a custom handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin
Bob
Face latherers, bowl latherers, mug latherers. Soft, medium, and hard soaps. Want it soft on my face. Want is scratchy on my face. Want it a little soft but a little scratchy on my face.
Too many options!
There's no way that I would go into the brush business.
Me neither. As hard as making the brush handle is getting the right knot into it is more difficult. It takes very good communication between a customer who has a good idea of the type of knot and loft setting they want and a custom maker who is knowledgeable about knots and can supply one to fit the need. It is a difficult job considering it is , on the face of it, a simple tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
Bob
Why not adjust the backbone with an elastic band or some form of ring put at the base of the knot? At least this will give some indication of the loft that you require from that type of hair.
That is exactly what I did with the synthetic knot I thought was too floppy for me. Once I determined the right loft for me I sent the brush off to HarryWally to have it reset in a custom handle. More than happy with the end product.Quote:
Originally Posted by UKRob
Bob
Wow! makes me sorry i got involved in this new hobby:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by kelbro
Probably send it off to be reknotted if it was a custom handle that i had had made.