Don't like my knot

Hi Guys,

I bought a shaving soap a while ago and I love it to bits.

Blackbeard - Bringing you back to the Golden Age of Piracy and the Pirate's code Blackbeard epitomized. Now, while we certainly don't condone piracy, smelling like a pirate has never smelled this good! To create Blackbeard, we started with tobacco, then added some cherry, vanilla, patchouli, cloves, and other spices. (Pasted from WSP Site).

In keeping with the pirate theme, I bought a new brush.

The brush was advertised as 100% badger but I have to say that it doesn't feel like any of my other badgers. It's not soft is all backbone and to me feeels like the really cheap synthetic brush I got from the body shop and never use.

Is it possible that badger can feel this bad?

How would I go about removing the knot and replacing it?

I really like the handle

I was thinking boar because I like it but would actually like to try a horse hair knot too.

How does horse compare to boar?

I have a feeling that knot based come in diferent diameters, is it as simple as measuring across the top of the hole when I get the old knot out with a ruler?

Attachment 322953

Looks synthetic to me

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Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Looks synthetic to me

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I'm glad you think that, I thought maybe I was wrong about it.

It is Chinese, I only bought it because I thought it was piratey and would look good with the soap but it is really hard to use. It keeps the shape as I use it and won't splay when I'm lathering unless I press so hard that I can't lather much anyway.

With a different knot I would be a happy chappie I'm sure.

There are some good how too's about removing a knot but basically if you don't want to save the knot it's as easy as cutting it off at the base and then drilling/pulling the rest out and then removing any excess glue. As for size, measure the diameter of the hole and then order a size smaller as a knot swells a little after you get past the base.

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Originally Posted by tintin

There are some good how too's about removing a knot but basically if you don't want to save the knot it's as easy as cutting it off at the base and then drilling/pulling the rest out and then removing any excess glue. As for size, measure the diameter of the hole and then order a size smaller as a knot swells a little after you get past the base.

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Does it matter how deep or shallow the knot goes if I don't want badger?
What glue do you use?

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Originally Posted by STF

Does it matter how deep or shallow the knot goes if I don't want badger?
What glue do you use?

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The depth will make a difference as far as backbone so it might be something you will want to adjust. If the knot you get fits tight enough you can try it without gluing it. Other wise a bit of hot glue just to hold it in temporarily will work (i've been told). If it's too deep it can be filled with coins, or cork to raise it up. A Forstner bit work well for making it deeper.
I like Goop glue or 5 minute epoxy for gluing it in.

If that handle is ceramic, it may not drill deeper with a forstner. If it is resin it will drill quite nicely. Other than that TinTin has said all I can say.

Yep! That about covers it. Now buy a knot.

Also, if you want to satisfy your curiosity, pull one of the hairs and burn it. Should be easy to tell if it's natural or synthetic then. If it is synthetic but was sold as "100% badger", then that seller owes you some $$ IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

Also, if you want to satisfy your curiosity, pull one of the hairs and burn it. Should be easy to tell if it's natural or synthetic then. If it is synthetic but was sold as "100% badger", then that seller owes you some $$ IMHO.

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Agreed but if it's from a Chinese seller I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Originally Posted by PaulFLUS

Agreed but if it's from a Chinese seller I wouldn't hold my breath.

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On the other hand, with mystery material, maybe it's even more important than ever to hold your breath. :rofl2:

I agree that normally I should try to get some money back but I have had this brush for a few months and I'm probably out of time with Amazon to do much about it.

I am going to do as Cangooner sugested and burn a bristle to see if it melts in a few minutes and report back to you.

In the meantime, I got the knot out!

I read the suggestions here for removing the knot but I have recently moved and my workshop is still a storage space for boxes so can't use a vice yet and I don't know what a forstner is, does it fit a handheld screwdiver/drill?

Anyway,I put it in a saucepan for 15 minutes and let it steam. I stood it in a dish so it wouldn't sit on the bottom of the saucepan. It took two 15 minute sessions and then I grabbed it by the hair and twisted, all of a sudden I had the base in one hand and the knot in the other. Easy peazy puddin and pie.

So now I have a nice clean hole in the base, I need to decide what size knot I need and what sort I want.

I am thinking of either boar or if I can get a good one, maybe synthetic.

Here is my base, I'm thinking maybe a 24mm or even 22mm, I would welcome any suggestions.

Attachment 322995

I burned s few hairs of the knot i removed with a lighter.

They immediatel caught fire and I blew them out straight away.

So, did I remove a badger I don't like or did I buy a badger and get synthetic?

Attachment 322997

Definitely synthetic. You mentioned that when you used it the knot went back to its original state, this is characteristic of synthetic, badger bristles will splay after first use.

Maseto Shaving (ebay) do excellent badger knots for the price, they'll loose the occasional bristle but are soft with good backbone.

Yeah, that looks awfully plastic-y to me. Natural hair tends to burn right away rather than melt back on itself as it appears yours did. If it was natural, there should have been the unmistakable aroma of burning hair.

Wow, I bought this brush from Amazon.ca back in March.

Amazon said that they couldn't refund me because I bought it too long ago so they gave me a credit for the price I paid and escalated the possible false listing. They will keep me posted.

I do hope it is synthetic, so I don't look really stupid!

A Forstner bit looks like this. I use them in my hand drill and like them especially since they leave a flat bottom and don't catch easily (at least the kind i have doesn't). You'll appreciate that since you will likely be holding the brush handle in your hand. A spade bit might work as well but i've never tried it.

The spade bit catches a lot! Not something to use holding with your hand. Forstner is the way to go.

PLUS, spade bits leave a cone shaped hole in the middle where the pilot point is. It's much more likely to spit the work piece or catch and fling either the work or the drill. I don't recommend a spade bit.
My son, bless his heart, when he was a lad was trying to install a lock and using a 1-in spade bit in the edge of the door and split the thing in half. The poor guy was just about in tears when I got there. Ever since then he won't touch a spade bit.

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Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

Definitely synthetic. You mentioned that when you used it the knot went back to its original state, this is characteristic of synthetic, badger bristles will splay after first use.

Maseto Shaving (ebay) do excellent badger knots for the price, they'll loose the occasional bristle but are soft with good backbone.

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Thanks for the recommendation.

I ordered 3 of these last nght:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/MASETO-19-20...wAAOSwaTtd4Ox4

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Originally Posted by STF

Here is my base, I'm thinking maybe a 24mm or even 22mm, I would welcome any suggestions.

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The knot you buy should be 1 to 1.5mm smaller than the hole diameter. If you want a very nice badger knot, check out Maggards SHD 2 band badger knots. I have a few after market badger knots and the one Maggards SHD 2 band badger knot I have is the best of the bunch.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

The knot you buy should be 1 to 1.5mm smaller than the hole diameter. If you want a very nice badger knot, check out Maggards SHD 2 band badger knots. I have a few after market badger knots and the one Maggards SHD 2 band badger knot I have is the best of the bunch.

Bob

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Hi Bob,

It actually turned out that I didn't zero my calipers before measuring the socket so it was wildly innacurate.

The socket is actually a little less than 20mm so I had to order 19mm, I couldn't find anything smaller.

If I need to when they arrive, I can open the hole a smidge with a forstner.

The 19mm synthitic knots I ordered already come in a pack of 3 but for $20ca and free shipping, I can live with it.

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Originally Posted by STF

Thanks for the recommendation.

I ordered 3 of these last nght:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/MASETO-19-20...wAAOSwaTtd4Ox4

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I've only tried their badger knots so cant attest to the synthetic you brought.
Here's some other reviews on Meseto Shaving brushes
https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum...wesome.544556/

https://www.atgshaving.com/threads/m...ra-dense.6778/

https://www.theshavingroom.co.uk/com...r-brush.44229/

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Originally Posted by markbignosekelly

I've only tried their badger knots so cant attest to the synthetic you brought.
Here's some other reviews on Meseto Shaving brushes
https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum...wesome.544556/

https://www.atgshaving.com/threads/m...ra-dense.6778/

https://www.theshavingroom.co.uk/com...r-brush.44229/

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Thanks, it doesn't look like I have much to worry about.

I'll let you know how I get on with the synthetic knot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STF

Hi Bob,

It actually turned out that I didn't zero my calipers before measuring the socket so it was wildly innacurate.

The socket is actually a little less than 20mm so I had to order 19mm, I couldn't find anything smaller.

If I need to when they arrive, I can open the hole a smidge with a forstner.

The 19mm synthitic knots I ordered already come in a pack of 3 but for $20ca and free shipping, I can live with it.

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Yea, noticed the calipers were out so only mentioned the leeway for knot size to hole diameter. Have fun and keep in mind Maggards SHD 2 band badger knots if you ever want a very nice replacement badger knot.

Bob

19mm sure is small but i know Ive got a couple with that small of a knot. Just be sure to test it before glueing. As said, a dab of hot glue will hold it enough for testing to find the right loft. To deep and it will look stuffed in and wont splay much. To shallow and it will have no backbone and be a floppy noodle. Good luck. Its fun making and re-doing brushes. You get to make them feel like you want. But remember that not everyone likes the same feel so its up to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tintin

A Forstner bit looks like this. I use them in my hand drill and like them especially since they leave a flat bottom and don't catch easily (at least the kind i have doesn't). You'll appreciate that since you will likely be holding the brush handle in your hand. A spade bit might work as well but i've never tried it.

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I can't get them from your link because i'm in Canada.

Ordered these.
https://www.amazon.ca/Meich-Forstner...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

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Originally Posted by Gasman

19mm sure is small but i know Ive got a couple with that small of a knot. Just be sure to test it before glueing. As said, a dab of hot glue will hold it enough for testing to find the right loft. To deep and it will look stuffed in and wont splay much. To shallow and it will have no backbone and be a floppy noodle. Good luck. Its fun making and re-doing brushes. You get to make them feel like you want. But remember that not everyone likes the same feel so its up to you.

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My hole is very shallow, about the depth of the base of the knot but I can make it deeper if I need to with a forstner I believe. Am I right about that?

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Originally Posted by STF

I can't get them from your link because i'm in Canada.

Ordered these.
https://www.amazon.ca/Meich-Forstner...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

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That looks like a good deal. Forstners are very handy to have around if you do any woodworking. Not only for precision drilling of holes, but also for stock removal.

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

That looks like a good deal. Forstners are very handy to have around if you do any woodworking. Not only for precision drilling of holes, but also for stock removal.

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Excellent! I was worried i had ordered some cheap crap. I did check the reviews and they are quite highly rated for general diy stuff. Probably last about 2 minutes in the hands of a professional though.

If I have to widen a handle socket and will be using a basic hand held screw diver/drill, how do I hold it in my hand but still make sure it drills straigh down at the correct angle - or will it be easier than it sounds?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STF

Excellent! I was worried i had ordered some cheap crap. I did check the reviews and they are quite highly rated for general diy stuff. Probably last about 2 minutes in the hands of a professional though.

If I have to widen a handle socket and will be using a basic hand held screw diver/drill, how do I hold it in my hand but still make sure it drills straigh down at the correct angle - or will it be easier than it sounds?

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BTW, if you ever have a need for high quality forstners, Lee Valley is your friend. :)

IMHO a vise or a third hand would be very helpful in doing that you describe... what is the handle made of?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

BTW, if you ever have a need for high quality forstners, Lee Valley is your friend. :)

IMHO a vise or a third hand would be very helpful in doing that you describe... what is the handle made of?

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This one is resin but if it works as I hope, who knows what fun I can have later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

BTW, if you ever have a need for high quality forstners, Lee Valley is your friend. :)

IMHO a vise or a third hand would be very helpful in doing that you describe... what is the handle made of?

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Thanks for the info, I just ordered Silicon Carbon and Wet & Dry from them.

My new knots arrived today :y

These are excellent knots and even though they are synthetic, I am really pleased.

I have had a couple of cheap synthetic brushes and they were disappointing so I am really pleased at he quality of these.

One thing I now know for sure, the original knot in this brush was 100% badger in the description as you all know.

Now I have a synthetic faux silver tip knot to compare the original one with, the original is definitely not real badger. It looks exactly the same as my new synth except lower quality.

I haven't had the chance to get a glue gun so I put the new knot in temporarily with a little spot of silicon and tried it out this afternoon.

That brush is excellent now, no adjustments needed.

Now what am I going to do with my forstners set, stupid knot, it wasn't supposed to fit that well straight out of the box.