21 or 23 mm knots?

i did some digging regarding knot sizes, and most everyone says its subjective. Jim over at vintage blades has a shavemac 944 custom made with a 23 mm knot instead of the usual 21 mm knot. what i am interested in is one of the custom shavemacs. i love the double metal brush handle (a metal collar and base) but it comes with a 21 mm knot. all the other custom handled options are 23 mm.

is the difference between a 21 and 23 mm knot noticeable? shavemac's websites suggests that all the handmade brushes have denser packing as compared to their own machine made knots. would that make up for the knot size difference?

so you know, im going for pure badger, i enioy the scrubby-ness, i tihnk it'll help prevent ingrown hairs for me (a problem on my neck), and as i gather, shavemac's pure badger isnt really all that rough (as compared to boar or "other" pure badger).

thanks for the help
Cheers- Vivek

I think Shavmac can make exactly what you want. Have you emailed him?

Jordan

yea i emailed

info@shavemac.de

and havent heard back yet. im guessing he can, i mean he makes the stuff right? :shrug:

but really its an issue of cost vs. benefit for me. i need a brush, but do i need a 23 mm knot? well i dunno seems everyone goes for the bigger knot they can get, i mean otherwise why would jim request a custom 944 with a 23 mm knot right? why would 28mm knots exist if no one wanted em right?

but if it isnt noticeable, then i wont bother, and i can toss the extra money at express shipping, or a couple beers. i just started, i just turned down a that beautiful razor Izlat had up for $100 because it really was the smart thing to do. im a newb, im 24, i got a whole life time of $ to waste i dont need to overspend now... save that for when i can afford some of those bbeeeeaaauutiful RW's, Maestros, Chandlers, etc..

know what i mean?

I think it really depends on what you like and the brush. From what I've read, some brushes perform bigger than they are and some smaller. It also depends on the loft of the bristles. I prefer a "smaller" brush myself. My go-to brush is a 22mm Rooney small in Finest. Take a shot and see what you like. If its not to your liking, you can probably sell it for a minimal loss.

Good luck and enjoy.

Jordan

I love the 944. I have big and small and the 944 with the 23 mm knot is a favorite for sure. Jim made a good choice.

Bernd took nearly a week to answer a recent email from me, but he will answer questions and help you find the right brush for you.

Kyle- good to know thanks, i was wondering cause ive seen posts from people on here saying how helpful he was, so i was scratchin my head when he didnt get back to me...

Chris- i remember we talked about the 944, in fact you were the person who got me on the shavemac boat. then, i cant remember where on here, someone said they ordered a custom loft/knot/handle brush from the website so i popped over and found that brush customizer, and realized i could get a brush, customized in color and handle, w/ S&H for almost the exact same price as the 944 from Jim. of course the dillema became that the handle i REALLLY wanted, is a 21 mm knot, and you had raved about the 23 mm knot in the 944, so i was curious if there really was a difference. non the less, my hats off to you for gettin me on the path to the right brush :bow

I've gotten few emails from Bernd within minutes, but it's usually within a day. He must be traveling or something, so give it few days and email again in case your first email is caught in spam. I am not sure how much he can advise you on what you want, but once you know what it is he'll make it.

I don't think people go for the largest brush they can afford - generally they figure out what its their preference and get that (reselling the rest). Seems like there is a current 'fashion swing' towards the smaller brushes, as there have been much more large brushes going for sale than small ones.
There are lot of factors that determine how a brush performs and the knot size is one of the less important. Density, hight of the bristles, shaping, quality of badger hair all can make the same knot size perform completely differently.
Shavemacs are great quality brushes quite dense and at a good price. And Bernd's shipping is a treat - I couldn't believe for what he charges it comes 2nd day fedex from germany.

Hi Vivek, I don't know if my experience with Bernd will help you, but here's some info he'd sent me when I ordered my brush. I was looking for a silvertip though, and have no idea if the same description applies to the 'pure' grade as well. I was interested in a brush with a smaller size knot. Here's part of the response I received about the different knot sizes: "The 23mm knot blooms more than the 22mm knot. It seems there is a border right at this size. All brushes up to 22mm blooms in a moderate way. From 23mm and larger the bloom makes a real step". Bernd also mentioned that the density of the 22mm will be a noticeable one, compared to the 21mm knot. Remember now.......this is the silvertip grade. You might ask Bernd if the same also holds true for the 'pure' grade. I'm very happy with my 22mm, and it IS a small size, which I like. Even though it didn't bloom out very large, the brush still holds plenty of lather (enough for my 4+ passes). It's soft, yet dense enough to provide excellent face lathering. You might think about spending a bit more cash and trying the silvertip, since I've heard this grade is a good bit nicer than the pure. I'm guessing you're planning on using whatever brush you purchase as your daily one, and the extra money may be worth it for a brush you will be using for a long time. Anyway, I don't know if this post helps or not, but it's something to consider. Bernd can take a little while to respond, but he will take care of you and will do his best to create exactly what you want. Martin

Vivek,
To answer your question. There is a very noticeable difference between a 21mm knot vs 23mm knot.

Generally speaking the 21mm is considered a smaller knot while the 23 mm knot is more middle of the road.

Since knots sizes are a matter of personal preference, I would recommend trying the 23 mm knot.

The shavemac is a good choice. Go for the handmade silvertip model it is a worthwhile investment.

You can also get Shavemacs from www.vintagebladesllc.com

- Amyn

re-emailed him, hopefully ill hear from him soon. i decided to get as big a knot as i can afford in the handle i like, handmade pure badger, cause i like the scrubby, and i dont use creams (yet) so, pretty much everything is decided till i hear back from bernd. thanks all for your help :tu

i have two 21mm handmade shavemacs. one in pure and one in silvertip. having both, i'd probably buy a finest instead. i found the pure is more scratchy than an omega boar (and verified by several others) i got mine with a 50mm loft so i still get a good backbone

infact i may add a finest in the same style as i have in the near future

really? more scratchy than boar? thats surprising. i was thinking of stepping up to the finest, its ~ $10 more from the brush i had customized for myself. im still waiting on Bernd to get back to me, now im just gettin ansy waitin on answers.

anyone think it would be...not blasphemous, but ya know, a waste, to buy one of the normal handles, then tape it off, sand and paint some chrome look onto the collar and base? i know that with those handles, hes actually adding plastic or whatever to an actual metal base and collar, but id like to think i could do an equally good job with some sandpaper and spray paint... any thoughts?

I have it in pure and 23 and I found it scratchy but not like the boar that I have. It is very stiff and dense which is why I like it. It is one of my best lathering brushes.

i should clarify what i mean to help you judge. my omega boar (not sure of other boar brands) had stiff bristles, but was still rather soft at the tips. the shavemac pure badge, has softer bristles and prickly tips. if it's only an extra $10 i'd step up to the finest.

however some people like the prickly feeling (i use the pure when i have longer stubble)

i do enjoy my pure, and in fact it probably sees more use than my silvertip, but only because i tend to go a few days between shaves (ie long stubble)

if i could have only ONE brush, i'm pretty sure it'd be a finest.

Eliminate the worry and go with a 22:y It's always been my favorite caliber.

haha yea im going with 22 or 23 mm knot. im still waiting on bernds reply. if he doesnt get back to me soon, i may go with the custom brush made by the gentleman referenced in the other thread in the brush forum. he claims denser than shavemac, soft as simpson, with a shavemac bulb, $55 for a 22mm knot and my choice of wood and handle. pretty hard to beat, but i still wanna hear from bernd...

The simple and easy answer would be.......1 of each :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vrex

haha yea im going with 22 or 23 mm knot. im still waiting on bernds reply. if he doesnt get back to me soon, i may go with the custom brush made by the gentleman referenced in the other thread in the brush forum. he claims denser than shavemac, soft as simpson, with a shavemac bulb, $55 for a 22mm knot and my choice of wood and handle. pretty hard to beat, but i still wanna hear from bernd...

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Wait...what deal is that!? That sounds like an awesome setup for $55.

i got this from a thread in the brush forum (same this post is in) titled "New custom Brush":

http://straightrazorpalace.com/showthread.php?t=16442

the company making those brushes, sounds like a one man operation. and yea, the deal definitely sounds good. make sure you read post #9 where he says he had to specify a very dense brush. that i dont understand. ill ask Amyn directly regarding that, and let you know what went on. anyhow, the company's website is

http://www.tamwoodworks.com/

he has a 7 day return policy. Bernd still hasnt gotten back to me, and this sounds like a million times better of a deal. might have to forgo the shavemacs...