Why is boar so much cheaper?!

So I've really been enjoying some older boar brushes these days that I bought on eBay, so much so that I'm thinking about selling my old stand-by Rooney brush and just going with boar from now on. The boar just makes better lather and feels better on my face in the morning. To cap things off, I even found a cool, new Semogue brush to purchase at Vintage Scents (photo below).

Now here's what's bothering me. To buy a silvertip badger brush that is even considered "middle of the road" costs $75-125, and many people seem to buy brushes that cost $200 or more. But this new, supposedly top-of-the-line Semogue that I bought cost about $30 including shipping, and most of the other brushes were $20 or less.

So how can a silvertip badger brush cost 5 to 10 times what a similar quality boar brush costs? I understand that many people like badger rather than boar, of course, but does that mean that the price disparity is entirely based upon "whatever the market will bear"? If so, that is kind of shameful, innit?

well boar are bigger
badger isnt hunted as much(as far as i know)and not domesticated(partially)either
also if i recall correctly some badgers dont have suitable hair for a good brush

in addition to this a lot of the prize lies in the handle and the brand name

hmm. given the number of badger products out there, they MUST be farmed. but A) boar are bigger MUCH bigger, especially the fat monsters bred industrially. B) badger are also just rarer - boar hair is used for many more things, and more parts of the boar are used, so greater supply will always bring price down. though now that I think of it, you gotta wonder how they manage to rear boar as livestock - I mean, isnt the difference between a fuzzy pig and a hairy boar that the boar is *wild*, i.e., by definition, NOT farmed? maybe they have some nasty hormones or something they give to farmed pigs they want to get hair out of....also, I have to disagree that a "middle of the road" badger is $75-$125.you can get a GREAT badger brush for $40-$50 (vulfix has really good value), and an *excellent* one for $70ish - I have been *thrilled* with my Rooney Super and my Simpson's Duke, both under $75. do you really find the boars you have as soft and pillowy as the badger? I can imagine that they would lather up just great, but that they would feel as yummy on the cheeks? I have heard that there are boar enthusiasts out there, but I figured they just didnt care as much about the yumminess.

Its about supply and demand. Having looked around at so many brushes, I do scratch my head at the price points of what I see. But, the customer knows what they want and suppliers are willing to give it to them.

The same with straight razors and disposable straight razors. What we should be thankful about is that there are a lot of choices for all types of straight razors.

Glad to hear that your boar brush is meeting your expectations. If it is your winner at that price range, then you are doing well and thanks for sharing. My first experience with a boar brush was less than desirable, so its good to hear from you about your boar brush.

Pabster

Boars are farmed for food, thus an enormous supply of hair. Badgers are illegal to hunt/trap in Europe, and badger hair of good quality is hard to get from China (the main source of hair) where they are hunted (not, as far as anyone knows) farmed.

That, and cache'.

Sources of brush hair

Because badgers are a protected species in North America and most of Europe, virtually all commercial badger hair comes from mainland China, which supplies knots of hair in three grades to brush makers in both China and Europe. In rural Northern China, badgers multiply to the point of becoming a crop nuisance, and village cooperatives are licensed by the national government to hunt badgers and sell the hair to processors.

Boar bristles are available cheaply from many sources. Brushes made in China or India with boar bristle are supplied wholesale for less than $1 each, while even the cheapest wholesale Badger brush costs at least $10; even the cost difference between badger brushes with resin handles vs. expensive horn handles shows that, except with exotic materials such as sterling silver, badger hair is the costliest element of a brush. And while it is common for boar-hair brushes to have part of the bristles dyed to resemble badger hair, at least one Chinese company has begun offering a badger-hair substitute made from small horse hair. Brushes with nylon-only bristles are made in India.



Have to Love Wikipedia

That said, I love my boar brushes, yes they may take some time to break in but once you do. Man are they soft. They get great split ends and that Semogue 830(pictured above) is a wonderful brush. $26.95 plus shipping from vintagescent.com. One of my daily brushes is my VDH Boar from walmart. Great back bone for face lathering and on its way to softening up nicely.

whoa now, are we saying that ALL the badger hair for ALL the brushes comes from chinese hunters? I find that hard to believe. I (would have) bet money that given the size of the industry - granted, not huge, but still - there has to be some farming/rearing going on of badgers, even if maybe only 1-3 quality suppliers in the world. Also, there are definitely companeis that sell (e.g. Plisson) European badger hair, and if they are protected then it must come from some set of cages *somewhere*.

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Originally Posted by janivar123

well boar are bigger
badger isnt hunted as much(as far as i know)and not domesticated(partially)either
also if i recall correctly some badgers dont have suitable hair for a good brush

in addition to this a lot of the prize lies in the handle and the brand name

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Boar is a male pig, Wild Boar is also farmed for the meat.

Wild boar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Badgers and their market are not as well supported for their meat.

Badger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by Mijbil

whoa now, are we saying that ALL the badger hair for ALL the brushes comes from chinese hunters? I find that hard to believe. I (would have) bet money that given the size of the industry - granted, not huge, but still - there has to be some farming/rearing going on of badgers, even if maybe only 1-3 quality suppliers in the world. Also, there are definitely companeis that sell (e.g. Plisson) European badger hair, and if they are protected then it must come from some set of cages *somewhere*.

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protected species in North America and most of Europe. Badger hunting is not completely outlawed in a handful of European countries. So there is still a source of badger hair in Europe :)

There's a lot more hogs out there.

I thought I read somewhere that badgers were raised in captivity in China and that the badger hair that you see in shaving brushes does not come from shooting and killing a badger but rather from shaving the hair off a live badger (as unpleasant as that task may be).

Still, I have to admit that the post above about badger hair just being rarer to find than boar hair makes sense.

If you haven't tried boar, by the way, you are really missing something. My boar brush makes MUCH better lather than my badger brush ever did, and yes, the boar feels a little scratchy on the face, but to me it's a good kind of scratchy and probably helps to exfoliate the skin.

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Originally Posted by JeffE

I thought I read somewhere that badgers were raised in captivity in China and that the badger hair that you see in shaving brushes does not come from shooting and killing a badger but rather from shaving the hair off a live badger (as unpleasant as that task may be).
n.

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Well, to my mind there just *have* to be badgers being raised somewhere. But shaving them? Yowzah. They must have to give the badgers Haldol or something.

I once saw this nature video about wolverines ( alot like a badger) and even the scientists who study wolverines have usually never seen them. This one scientist had seen them, but only a couple of times:he traps them - but even then, it's a wooden trap and usually the wolverine manages to chew through the 18 inches of solid wood (timber) the trap is made out of by morning, so by the time the scientists gets to the the traps, usually even if one had a wolverine its long gone. AND in the instances where there is one, he had to invent this special long pole-sort-of device which both lifts open the trap and simultaneously inserts a tranq. dart, otherwise at the slightest crack of the trap opening the wolverine busts open the trap and is gone.

Wolverines have been known to kill moose. Moose. 8 feet tall. And they regularly kill deer.

But I digress. So, I'm excited about this new hone I ordered......

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Originally Posted by Mijbil

Wolverines have been known to kill moose. Moose. 8 feet tall. And they regularly kill deer.

But I digress. So, I'm excited about this new hone I ordered......

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.... Now I'm more scared of my brush than my razor...

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Originally Posted by timmy

protected species in North America and most of Europe. Badger hunting is not completely outlawed in a handful of European countries. So there is still a source of badger hair in Europe :)

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I'm not at all sure but .... I think the finest quality badger hair comes from China. I've read, IIRC, that they also eat badger over there so it is not just a source for hair. I've never tried a boar brush but now I guess I will have to give one a go.

There is no argument at all that badgers are bad motherf******s. Aggressive meat-eating machines with sharp teeth and claws and an attitude to match. It's like they decided that shaving brushes had to be made out of hyena hair or something like that.

But I always thought that a badger was not being killed for the specific purpose of allowing me to have a fluffy badger hair shaving brush. Now, if this is true, it leads to two possibilities. Either they are killing the badgers for other reasons, like meat, and they harvest the hair at the same time as the rest of the animal. (Don't really have any problem with that, and it's better than letting the rest of the animal go to waste.) Or they are not killing the badgers at all but are . . . um . . . shaving them? How would you do this, given the badger's well known temper? And another thing, what kind of brush do you use for shaving a badger?! Just kidding!

To answer your question about HOW to shave them, JeffE. Large amounts of BUFFALO TRANQUILIZER.

That's my guess.

All right, now the next time I have an hour to waste on YouTube, I've got to look for a video of somebody shaving a badger. Or trying to. :popcorn:

~Rich

Whoa, check this out -- answers to all of your burning badger shaving questions!

Source for Badger Hair - The Shave Den

Bottom line -- yes, most of the badger hair seems to come from China, but some does get produced in Europe. No, the badgers are not killed just for their fur. But yes, the badgers are killed for their meat and then the furs are sold to other people who clean it, sort it and turn it into badger hair knots.

hmmm,, some interseting stuff there, but mostly just back and forth, and claims for both sources....it *seems* that the bulk comes from hunted badgers in China, because they are considered a pest there and they have a government organized enough to gather up all the pelts from individual badger murders (j/k) BUT at least one company, Semogue, uses farmed, sheared badger hair from Europe. And Plisson's website says quite clearly that their most expensive brushes ($250+) are European badger hair and the cheaper brushes ($100-$200) are Chinese. But what we really want to know is, what about the brushes from the companies we all use - Rooney, Simpsons, Vulfix, Kent, Omega, etc? Someone who runs a shop and sources these brushes direct from these companies could maybe ask the rep when they have a chance?

Well, if you compare the cost of boar knots vs. badger knots on for example the thegoldennib, you'll notice only $10-$20 difference.
So the difference in price of the finished product comes primarily from differences in the profit margins.
Remember these are somewhat niche and luxury items.
Perhaps it's not unlike the comparison between a charles shaw and ch. petrus, both are made from merlot grapes.

I was just on the phone today with Goldennib and ordering up my Silver tip and was shocked to hear the man was also making boar brushes to meet the demand coming in and they are priced much higher than I would have thought.

Perhaps this is the beginning of a trend or just a flash in the pan. Time will tell.

Pabster

I hope I'm not the one driving up prices!! I've been bugging Tony to get some boar knots in stock, as I have a few nice, older handles ready for new knots, and it seems like a shame to substitute badger for the original boar. Anyway, I'll post some pics as soon as they are done. --Jeff