Looking for a 2 band...is this reasonable?

Hello everyone,

I've been looking for a new Simpsons 2 band brush. I found that a large & well-known retailer of Simpsons has the 2 band pictured on their product page. I contacted them to ask whether I would receive the brush as pictured with 2 band hair. They replied that they get both 2 band and 3 band brushes and couldn't specify. I informed them (they should have known) that the 2 bands are now basically unavailable except as limited editions and special orders directly from Simpsons. Then they replied that they have tried both and that there is no difference between 2 band and 3 band.

Is it reasonable to be disappointed by this response? Do they actually have both types (now I seriously doubt it)? Is it worth placing the order with the special request for 2 band and risking the need to return the brush and pay a restocking fee of 15%? I'm not sure but will continue the search. After all that's what this hobby is about :) .

Personally, I would not even consider ordering from a retailer that tells you that they have tried both types and there is no difference between the two. I have had a Vulix super badger and now have a Simpsons Manchurian and there is a world of difference. Both were/are good brushes but distinctly different. I think based on that that it is reasonable to think there would be a difference between a Simpsons 3 band and 2 band brushes that was noticeable in use. I am suspicious that it sounds like a bait and switch tactic to sell what they actually have which may not be the 2 band you are after. Then again I could easily be all wet on that. For what those brushes cost I would continue looking for a retailer that actually has what you want in stock.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. Here's are some actual quotes from the email exchange:

"We have received from time to time, Simpsons brushes in both 2-band/3-bands, however, here of late, we've received more 3-band. We do not keep track in our inventory which is which."

"Over the years, we've reviewed both 2 and 3-band versions and have not found significant differences between the two."

I'm thinking about placing an order with a note saying to cancel if the brush isn't a 2 band...still on the fence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BobH

Personally, I would not even consider ordering from a retailer that tells you that they have tried both types and there is no difference between the two. I have had a Vulix super badger and now have a Simpsons Manchurian and there is a world of difference. Both were/are good brushes but distinctly different. I think based on that that it is reasonable to think there would be a difference between a Simpsons 3 band and 2 band brushes that was noticeable in use. I am suspicious that it sounds like a bait and switch tactic to sell what they actually have which may not be the 2 band you are after. Then again I could easily be all wet on that. For what those brushes cost I would continue looking for a retailer that actually has what you want in stock.

Bob

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I think the solution is to order directly from Simpson. I've been on their page drooling over a Butterscotch Manchurian Tulip 3 for months and haven't pulled the trigger. The spirit is willing but the wallet is weak. Anyway, if you want to avoid possible disappointment just go with the direct source where you can specify two band with confidence that you will end up with it.

Exactly what Jimmy said. Simpsons 2 band is very hard to to find and is only available from Simpsons themselves unless you luckily happen upon a retailer who has some in inventory. The lucky happenstance is possible but highly unlikely because there many looking for these brushes (including me...).

If you're looking for other 2 band, Semogue and Vie Long are two brush makers that make quality brushes and have brushes in 2 band readily available. Same goes for Shavemac and to a lesser degree Thater.

Good luck!

Last I looked SRD has Thater 2 bands. My whole motivation in wanting a 2 band is stritch. Used to be that a 2 band had backbone and scritch, while 3 bands were generally softer and rarely had that scrubbiness . The Thater has backbone but no scritch at all. Real soft tips, which I've learned to like as well as scritch, variety being a good thing.

The old Simpson two bands that were made in Somerset had the scritch. I don't know about those made in the Vilfix factory. I've heard good things about them but I've never owned one. If anyone has experience with the current Simpson 2 bands I'd like to know if they are scritchy the way the Somerset made 2 bands are ? :hmmm:

I'd go along with what the others have said and order direct from Simpsons which is what I did for my Manchurian. Just drop them an email and ask about availability of the one you want. I don't own a Thater but I do have an SOC 2 band badger that is not too far behind the Manchurian in the way it feels in use and that says a lot for the SOC especially considering the price. Make no mistake I just love the Simpsons QE II Jubilee but could easily live with the SOC.

Bob

I have a few current Simpsons 2 band, and I think what determines scritch (from my experience) is the loft size. There's plenty of backbone to be sure, but you notice it with a shorter loft and its scrubbiness shines at this point. I prefer this hair type, but I also like the Manchurian hair from Simpsons as well (but, as has been pointed out, a very expensive item to lust after).

I think Vie Long's 2 band brushes, and Semogue's, represent the best quality for the dollar, and are the beat value for 2 band brushes. That said, I haven't yet tried Wet Shave Product's brushes, but have read some good things abou them.

Thanks for the replies everybody. My plan at this point is to see if the retailer can be of a bit more help. Since they picture the 2 band brush on their website, they should understand if a customer wants the item of the same basic kind "as pictured."

Is this reasonable: I'll place the order and drop them a note to cancel it if they don't have the 2 band? It's not about cherrypicking an individual brush--it's about delivering the same basic kind of brush as they show. What do you think?

My answer to that is in my first post to this thread.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rexcarolus

Thanks for the replies everybody. My plan at this point is to see if the retailer can be of a bit more help. Since they picture the 2 band brush on their website, they should understand if a customer wants the item of the same basic kind "as pictured."

Is this reasonable: I'll place the order and drop them a note to cancel it if they don't have the 2 band? It's not about cherrypicking an individual brush--it's about delivering the same basic kind of brush as they show. What do you think?

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Candidly it doesn't sound like a transaction I would do as you describe it. I know there are many reputable vendors who are able to answer whether their inventory is as depicted, or even where their inventory stands. It would make more sense to order it and return if not as described rather than rely on their judgement if they can't even answer whether they have an advertised product or not.

I appreciate wanting a good deal. Believe me I get that, but when it comes to seeking this particular item with this particular hair type, it may be safest to pay full retail from Simpsons.

The is a lot of confusion with the banding on brushes. Several years ago a two band brush was a sub type of a super badger and was a type of hair rarely seen and very expensive. You could only buy one from Simpson, Plisson and Rooney as I recall. Then the stuff became universally unavailable and all of a sudden everyone is selling two band. The "new" two band bears no resemblance to the old. From what I read the old two band became unavailable because of Global Warming and the particular animals stopped producing that hair. What replaced it was inferior stuff.

Then the game changed when Simpson started selling the Manchurian and Thater started selling their own two band. Neither of these two brushes have the same characteristics as the old two however they come the closest as any I've seen and are quite nice. Once you hold an old two bander you will never mistake one for anything else ever again. It's like holding Ivory and comparing it to plastic or bone any other substance.

So, before you get all excited over two band you need to be sure on what the brand you are interested in really is. Some outfits trim three band and you have instant two band. It's almost become a two band game in the market.

I'm pretty much set on Simpsons. The "good deal" aspect is compelling: from my understanding, the 2 band brush ordered "custom" is about 50% more expensive than what I see from this retailer.

If I understand thebigspendur correctly, Simpsons current 2 band super is different from that available recently (pre-Vulfix)? Is the current Manchurian equivalent to the pre-Vulfix 2 band?

Correct. The new 2 band is nothing like the old 2 band. The Manchurian is closer but is still quite different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rexcarolus

Thanks for the replies everybody. My plan at this point is to see if the retailer can be of a bit more help. Since they picture the 2 band brush on their website, they should understand if a customer wants the item of the same basic kind "as pictured."

Is this reasonable: I'll place the order and drop them a note to cancel it if they don't have the 2 band? It's not about cherrypicking an individual brush--it's about delivering the same basic kind of brush as they show. What do you think?

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It seems rather absurd to me. Why would you need to place an order and then have them cancel it?
Just tell them to check if they have a 2 band, and then either you order or not.
You placing an order does not give them any information they don't already have.

Well, Bruno, they basically refused to check and said that 2 and 3 band are the same....If there is any good outcome, I'll be sure to report back.

You can't always get what you want from a retailer. They've already told you they aren't going to sort the brushes. I'd believe them. My guess is they don't know if they have two bands and it would be a ton of work to find out.

I got my simpson emperor 2 in two band 1.5 years ago from the superior shave. It's a little scratchy and firm if you ask me. I have no way to compare it to older variants. I do love it and haven't used anything else since. Perfect brush IMO.

Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

It seems rather absurd to me. Why would you need to place an order and then have them cancel it?
Just tell them to check if they have a 2 band, and then either you order or not.
You placing an order does not give them any information they don't already have.

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Exactly.



Walk away i say.

And start a new thread explaining the situation & naming the vendor.


People need to be of shady practices.

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Originally Posted by hedonist222

Exactly.



Walk away i say.

And start a new thread explaining the situation & naming the vendor.


People need to be of shady practices.

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The vendor is being pretty up-front about things IMO.

If they lose a sale then it's their loss. However I think they have the right to do business the way they want.

Just go somewhere else. I don't see the reason to bash the vendor. I think the op is doing the right thing by not naming the vendor.

Michael

Update: I placed an order for the brush and followed up with a reply to another customer service person saying that I wanted a brush that looked like the pictured one, i. e. 2 band--after all the previous person did say they occasionally get 2 bands. She replied and said the brush is now out of stock--whether out of stock in 2 band, or completely out of stock, I don't know. I replied saying I was glad to wait or willing to substitute by placing an order for the next larger size of the brush (in case there is stock), which they also carry.

It is admittedly a long shot, but since the retailer is large perhaps they still do have a 2 band lingering around in the larger size or get the odd one mixed into a batch. Thankfully I was able to buy a 2 band Simpsons (though a different model) from another vendor for no upcharge. Will post pics of the score once it is in hand!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjsorkin

The vendor is being pretty up-front about things IMO.

If they lose a sale then it's their loss. However I think they have the right to do business the way they want.

Just go somewhere else. I don't see the reason to bash the vendor. I think the op is doing the right thing by not naming the vendor.

Michael

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I never said to write negatively or bash the vendor. I said to explain how this vendor does business.

i.e: posts a picture of a 2 band, then refuses to verify whether it is the exact product (which is significantly more expensive than what they claim to have) and to top it all off , absurdly says they're the same and no difference.

Potential customers need to be aware of this. Their (customers) decision to proceed is their own choice but they need to be aware.

One of the reasons we don't cotton to vendor criticism is you never have both sides of the story. Do we even know if the person the OP spoke to was all that aware since another person seems to have said something different. One incident like this doesn't reveal how a vendor does business anyway especially if it's a "big" oufit.

I've seen too many instances where there was a misunderstanding or some other glitch that wound up being blown out of proportion.

In this case the OP didn't actually lose any money or have a substandard product sent to him.

Just checked my credit card statement and found I was charged for the out of stock brush....not cool :(

Finally good news to report: my first 2 band brush arrived today and it is a beauty!
Attachment 123889
Many thanks to Joseph at the Italian Barber for making my dream come true! I may have further good news by week's end :p

Nice looking brush, glad it worked out for you.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. Here it is post test-lather. Of course i had to try it on the face--more scrub and scritch than I get from a well-broken in Simpson Best, but that's what I was looking for.

Attachment 123893

Just give it a week or so of steady use to break in more.

Bob

I have the emperor 2 in two band. Same knot with a bigger handle.

Nothing else has touched my face since I bought it.

Michael

I had the closest shave yet yesterday, thanks in part to the E1 starting to break in. It's a pretty beefy example with a knot diameter of 20mm (or a little bit more) and a loft of almost 50mm.

I have to extend thanks to Phil at BullGoose for hooking me up with this beautiful Tulip 3 (T3) in 2 band:

Attachment 124173

Just to wrap things up, my order with the original vendor I posted about has been canceled. Their last email stated that they had always told me they no longer have or receive any 2 band brushes. If they had just been up front about this, it would have been appreciated. But thanks again to Joseph and Phil making this thread conclude happily!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjsorkin

I have the emperor 2 in two band. Same knot with a bigger handle.

Nothing else has touched my face since I bought it.

Michael

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rexcarolus

I had the closest shave yet yesterday, thanks in part to the E1 starting to break in. It's a pretty beefy example with a knot diameter of 20mm (or a little bit more) and a loft of almost 50mm.

I have to extend thanks to Phil at BullGoose for hooking me up with this beautiful Tulip 3 (T3) in 2 band:

Just to wrap things up, my order with the original vendor I posted about has been canceled. Their last email stated that they had always told me they no longer have or receive any 2 band brushes. If they had just been up front about this, it would have been appreciated. But thanks again to Joseph and Phil making this thread conclude happily!

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Glad to hear it! The brush is a beauty and Phil runs a good operation. I recommend folks to him as often as I can.