Need advice on a good wood glue

Hello All,

I have a very large bucket of exotic woods about 2”x 2”x1/4” . I want to turn them but was wondering if someone could recommend a good glue to use. In years past I used a boat glue that I mixed up with water and used an electric setting gun to cure with. The setting gun was much like a taser today. About 6 moves later I can not find the name of the glue or the setting gun.


On to today’s problem, any idea of a all around wood glue that will bond lets say coco bola to Purple heart and still take a turning?

Thanks in advance

Do the joints need to be water proof?
It makes a huge difference in what kinds of glue are acceptable.
Jody

2 comp epoxy , It's marine-graded and bonds and coats fiberglass, wood, metal, fabrics and other composite materials

and suuuuper strong

I guess the quick answer is yes. I do want to use some in brushes. I have all kinds to play with and just don't want to blow them apart

School glue (Elmer's school glue) is strong on wood, BUT it may not be water proof.
Wood glue is similar - do not know if standard wood glue is water proof....

With either of the above, I would think you could turn the wood on a lathe (I presume that is what you mean to do). But it may not be good with water.

Epoxy is definetly going to be ok with water.
I vote for 2-part Epoxy (not the quick set kind).

Jody

2 part epoxy but also dowel them.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

2 part epoxy but also dowel them.

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The dowel was in the plan, Thank you for reconfirming that. Do you have a go to glue you would share?

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Originally Posted by hidestoart

The dowel was in the plan, Thank you for reconfirming that. Do you have a go to glue you would share?

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I use loctite two part epoxy but I think all epoxys are about the same.

Titebond waterproof wood glue at Lowes

Everything does well with 2 part epoxy. My opinion is that two part epoxy is 'best' for the oily woods (cocobolo etc). Having said that, I've never had a failure with Titebond.

Epoxy is also very good for watery environments, as is Titebond III. Titebond III is cheaper, epoxy will not leave a differentially colored seam. All glues will leave a seam while turning. My suggestion with cocobolo is to add no more than 10% of black colorant to epoxy. This makes the glue seam look like black cocobolo grain. This assumes that you are lining up the grain in the halves parallel to the glue seam. I have used both carbon black and black dye powder successfully.

Don't take this the wrong way but.....if you are concerned about your blank blowing apart, your turning technique is poor. Three possibilities here:

1. You are not adequately sharpening your tools, or not sharpening them frequently enough.
2. You are using poor gluing technique. "Poor" includes inadequately jointing the two halves, inadaquately smoothing two halves, and/or improperly clamping the two halves. Note that PVA (titebond) wants very high clamping pressure, while epoxy requires "solid" clamping pressure, but not so much as to drive out all the glue.
3. Your gouge/skew technique is poor and you are either catching, scraping out large chunks rather than cutting, or both. Maybe you are using a tool/grind for facing operations that should only be used for spindle turning. DVD's by Bill Grumbine are your friend.

Note that one of the spectacular ways to explode a blank is to use dowels to put together two halves of a spindle, and then turn the spindle down with a skew until you encounter the endgrain of a dowel...and then KAPOW!!!

If you are consistently having glue line failure on your blanks it could be because you are using a drive cone and/or a live/dead center tail cone (or point) and are using too much pressure on the tailstock. Your cone(s) are being converted into splitting wedges. This tends to happen when an inexperienced turner uses a spur drive and has a catch. The spur gouges out a path in the blank, and loses the ability to drive. The user then tightens up the tailstock to get the spur to drive again, and in the process puts 'splitting' force into the glue seam. A person who will catch once, will catch again, and do the same thing again, and eventually split the blank.

A light, aware touch, even during roughing, is the road to turning nirvana. Trying to use mechanical means (such as dowels) to make up for unpracticed technique, is the road to hell. I've been down both...

In addition to my earlier post, please accept this invitation to join:

WoodNet.net - The Woodworker's Online Resource

The woodnet braintrust is the center of all woodworking knowledge in the whole universe...including for turning (but excluding carving in the round...a sad deficit).

I'd go for Titebond as well, I use Titebond original almost exclusively for guitar making and repair. I don't know about the waterproof version but the original grabs very quickly there's not a lot of alignment time so accurate positioning is essential.

When you laminate two different types of wood together using any sort of glue, you need to take into account that every species of wood expands and contracts differently. Also what needs to be taken into account is that any wood, glued end grain to end grain, using a standard wood glue will NEVER bond. That being said....

When I turn a shaving brush my end grain is always aligned at the ends of the shave brush. The reason I do this is to show off the beauty of the grain in the wood. If I laminate 2 pieces together for a brush handle, I have to use an epoxy. Reason is, I'm gluing end grain to end grain. Now for brushes, these things are seeing constant moisture, and constant drying. If the wood isn't sealed properly, the two pieces will move at different rates and eventually rip that glue joint apart. Dowls, holes for the epoxy to sink into, and roughing up the grain when gluing, are all ways to combat this problem.

Igigig

Thank you for your advice. The lucky part of this is I have not even tried to glue the woods together and turn them. I have learned with age that it is better to seek advice to avoid problems than run into the fire. My turning has been limited to solid woods.

What would you recomend for a coloring agent in your epoxy?

Hey Guys, I was thinking a fluted dowel would be the way to go, am I on the right track in this thinking? Also my thought was to keep the dowel 3/8" - 1/4" short of the finished end and boar hole.

I suppose the oil in the diffrent woods has been my main concern though.

Yup, a fluted dowel will work well. It will give lots of surface area for the epoxy to grab onto. Another trick I use, is to run a wood screw around inside of the bored hole for the dowels. Trying to cut mini grooves in the side walls of the hole for the epoxy to grab. Even when I dowel, I still drill smaller holes too. Around the dowel for the epoxy to sink into. Not in the dowel, in the wood faces itself. On both pieces to be laminated. Something around a 1/8 bit, and about 1/8 deep.

Anything you can do to make that epoxy grab better is going to make a stronger bond. :) I think your on the right track so far. I hope everything goes well for you! Let us know how it goes.

Attachment 144244

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Originally Posted by hidestoart

Hey Guys, I was thinking a fluted dowel would be the way to go, am I on the right track in this thinking? Also my thought was to keep the dowel 3/8" - 1/4" short of the finished end and boar hole.

I suppose the oil in the diffrent woods has been my main concern though.

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No Reason not to run the dowel all the way thru.

HARRYWALLY - The idea of the 1/8” holes on the face is super I would not have thought of them.

Pixelfixed - Thank you for the dowel thru pictures. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I would like to talk about glue up. Do you do the laminate glue up first and then bore and epoxy the dowel in OR bore the pieces to be laminated and stack them on the dowel as you are applying the epoxy between layers? I can see benefits and negatives to each method but more interested in what works the best.

One question remains at this point that I would like to ask, and that would be coloring the epoxy. This is a thought that is interesting to think about. Are there any ideas on this as far as where to get the color? It was mentioned not to use more than 10% that seems pretty straight forward as that leaves 90% straight epoxy for the bond. Any thought or input on this is welcome.

Sorry for asking so many questions but as I said earlier I am not into trial an error.

I always tell my guys that experience is what you get when you don’t get what you want.
I have had enough experience to last me a life time and now ask questions so I can avoid any more of it.

I do all the glue up first,bore the dowel hole, fill it with epoxy,drive the dowel in,Than turn the blank true on the metal lathe.
Face off both ends to the lenth I want,bore the holes, than turn between centers on thewood lathe.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...sbrush2001.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...hebrush001.jpg

Another thought - when gluing oily tropical woods, wipe with alcohol (most any kind - lacquer thinner, etc.) before gluing.

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Originally Posted by skipnord

Another thought - when gluing oily tropical woods, wipe with alcohol (most any kind - lacquer thinner, etc.) before gluing.

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Good point,I use Acetone. Here is one I just finished,5/16 dowel all the way thru.Buff horn,lapis recon,purple heart.
Attachment 144268

I was going to say the same thing about acetone. That is a gorgeous handle there. Trying something like that has always scared me. Someday, but I think I'll stick with the basics until then.
Attachment 145896

I really like the wood and the design of the bowl. Well done.

Thanks. They're made out of spalted ambrosia maple. I love working with spalted woods as the grain can be really spectacular. Not always, though, as the brush shows.

I note there is a fair amount of wood used in the shaving biz. Soap comes in wood bowls, some scuttles are wood, brush handles, and scales. What finish are you all using to protect from water?

By the way, fine brush and bowl!

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Originally Posted by jgjgjg

I note there is a fair amount of wood used in the shaving biz. Soap comes in wood bowls, some scuttles are wood, brush handles, and scales. What finish are you all using to protect from water?

By the way, fine brush and bowl!

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Thanks. I use Danish oil first and then about five coats of polyurethane. Pixelfixed likes Renaissance wax on his brush handles, but I use poly because I want the bowl to stand up to regular use. The problem with poly is that it can't be easily repaired while wax can.
Thanks again for the compliment.

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Originally Posted by irish19

Thanks. I use Danish oil first and then about five coats of polyurethane. Pixelfixed likes Renaissance wax on his brush handles, but I use poly because I want the bowl to stand up to regular use. The problem with poly is that it can't be easily repaired while wax can.
Thanks again for the compliment.

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My brush handles are also heavily oiled as part of my final polishing with rottenstone, using walnut oil or artist grade clear linseed.Than I apply 6 coats of ren.
A bowl that really never drys out is a diff animal.

Hidestoart:

I've used two things: transfast dry dyes (reds, oranges), and carbon black. If you use the dye, you'll have to experiment a bit. With one brand of epoxy, the dye remains chunky and unsatisfactory unless I first mix it with the hardener. With another brand, it's immiscible with the hardner but miscible with the resin. But they do work.

I've also copper poweder (Pyrotechnic Chemicals and Supplies, Sparklers, Fireworks Fuse) but that not really colorant, is it? Guess it's how you look at it. The West System 3 website has a good article, complete with pictures, on types of colorants, their effect on bond strength, how much to use, etc.

One note: there are some instances where the dye turns "pastel" or "grey" when you sand it. I've found that this ugly disappears with a coat of laquer or CN.