Some experimenting

Quick backstory:
I love all things gaudy when it comes to cars and motorcycles, like heavy metal flake paints, lots of gold and brass, etc. Picture a lime green with gold flake Impala and gold Daytons.
So naturally I want to make a brush like that but my search for glitter acrylics or other materials came up short. Found one place but they said they weren't running any rods at the time.
So I bought some polyester resin for casting and did some mixing. Playing with the amount of hardener takes some time and also suspending the glitter. Too little hardener and it's tacky or scratches, and too much and it creates too much heat and cracks. Some of you may already know this process but new to me.
Below are some pictures from casting to turning.
The most difficult part is turning for me - as you can see the shape is simple cause it's very brittle and my tools would catch easily. I need major practice there. Comments welcome! I'm pretty pleased with this one but even more I'm excited at the possibilities with what you can do.

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Well done.
Cannot advise as i have not done this, but congratulations for having a lash and especially for succeeding!

Thats Neat.I rarley turn phenolics but have found that spindle speed is critical.About 1700 seems to be the sweet spot.

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Originally Posted by Adam G.

Well done.
Cannot advise as i have not done this, but congratulations for having a lash and especially for succeeding!

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Thanks! I almost forgot I posted this it was so quiet :)
I did a couple more castings and got one to come out much more transparent. When I clean it up I'll post a pic.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Thats Neat.I rarley turn phenolics but have found that spindle speed is critical.About 1700 seems to be the sweet spot.

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It's interesting you say that cause in my research today I basically found out I need to be turning faster. I also ordered one of the carbide tools from the site you suggested Bill. Can't wait to get it...

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Originally Posted by RoyalCake

It's interesting you say that cause in my research today I basically found out I need to be turning faster. I also ordered one of the carbide tools from the site you suggested Bill. Can't wait to get it...

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So many diff types of phenolics,I have only turned delrin and plexi.

Funny you say 1700 rpm. That's my go to speed for turning.

You turn by hand? I would try "riding the bevel" with this material. It creates more of a shearing cut rather than a scraping cut. Less chance of a piece breaking off or chipping. It's a technique used to achieve very smooth cuts.

Riding the Bevel - NewWoodworker.com LLC

I should add that I like what your doing here. If you come away with good results, I might try it. Looks like fun.

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Originally Posted by HARRYWALLY

Funny you say 1700 rpm. That's my go to speed for turning.

You turn by hand? I would try "riding the bevel" with this material. It creates more of a shearing cut rather than a scraping cut. Less chance of a piece breaking off or chipping. It's a technique used to achieve very smooth cuts.

Riding the Bevel - NewWoodworker.com LLC

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Thanks for the link! I knew the term but never read the detailed explanation.
The amber one I cast last night seems much better (glad I didn't glue the knot in yet). When I get the surface cleaned up I'll post a pic.
Yeah I'm excited about the possibilities.

All great stuff guys,you can buy zillions of extruded handles (all made in China) I love the home brew you guys are doing.one of a kind stuff.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

All great stuff guys,you can buy zillions of extruded handles (all made in China) I love the home brew you guys are doing.one of a kind stuff.

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Yeah that's what drove me to it in the first place - couldn't find what I was looking for. Would never had thought to do any of this if not for SRP. Good fun!

Here's the amber one I did last night. That's the clarity I was looking for. I'm going to practice patience and wait for my new tool to turn this one :)

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Just a brain fart here but you could mix a bunch of the glitter into the epoxy for the knot and maybe hide the knot ? Or put a layer of glitter on the wall before you put the knot in.

Looking cool Shane :<0)

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Originally Posted by RoyalCake

Quick backstory:
I love all things gaudy when it comes to cars and motorcycles, like heavy metal flake paints, lots of gold and brass, etc. Picture a lime green with gold flake Impala and gold Daytons.
So naturally I want to make a brush like that but my search for glitter acrylics or other materials came up short.

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You might like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfXs0m32A8E

I LOVE IT!
LOOKING GOOD! :tu

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

Just a brain fart here but you could mix a bunch of the glitter into the epoxy for the knot and maybe hide the knot ? Or put a layer of glitter on the wall before you put the knot in.

Looking cool Shane :<0)

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Thanks. Yeah I'm still wondering about ideas to hide the knot. Either a sleeve or like you said just put a lot of filler in the epoxy. They also have opaque dyes for the resin so I imagine I could use that in the epoxy.

Where do you guys get knots that aren't made in China?

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Originally Posted by guitstik

Where do you guys get knots that aren't made in China?

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Not sure...I believe all the TGN knots are from China. I think that's what most people here use for their knots...

I like that, its good to see a successful experiment :D

How strong is this stuff, would it be suitable as a scale material ? I wonder if dropping paint in while its setting would work. I suppose you can suspended pretty much anything in there, lots and lots of possibilities :)

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Originally Posted by mike1011

I like that, its good to see a successful experiment :D

How strong is this stuff, would it be suitable as a scale material ? I wonder if dropping paint in while its setting would work. I suppose you can suspended pretty much anything in there, lots and lots of possibilities :)

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Mike-
Thanks. While I haven't found a published strength number this material seems very strong. Cutting through the rod with a hacksaw is not as easy as I thought. Plenty strong for scales. In fact if you search for resin casting here there's a thread on someone making some nice reproductions.
As far as paints they sell dyes specifically for the resin, but I've seen people on YouTube mixing in powdered paint and seems to work fine.
The material is used a lot for encapsulating objects so yeah you can put almost anything in there. I have an idea for the next one - I'll post it when I get it done :)

Shane

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Originally Posted by guitstik

Where do you guys get knots that aren't made in China?

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All Knots are chinese,at least all badger hair comes from china,They are considerd a pest and do alot of damage to crops.
All is not wasted tho,they are also an important food source.

Mycarver has made some excellent plastic scale material - as I recall, he uses acrylic, not polyester. I have made a number of poly brush handles from rod that I cast. As you found, it is very brittle, and you have to be extremely careful turning, or it will "explode". I haven't done any for a year or so, but as I recall using a tool with a very small contact point worked best. And, I haven't tried making scales from it. I like the semi-transparent look you are getting. Good luck with your projects.

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Originally Posted by skipnord

Mycarver has made some excellent plastic scale material - as I recall, he uses acrylic, not polyester. I have made a number of poly brush handles from rod that I cast. As you found, it is very brittle, and you have to be extremely careful turning, or it will "explode". I haven't done any for a year or so, but as I recall using a tool with a very small contact point worked best. And, I haven't tried making scales from it. I like the semi-transparent look you are getting. Good luck with your projects.

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Thanks for the tip! I'm going to be turning that piece probably next week. I'll post how it goes...

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Originally Posted by HARRYWALLY

Funny you say 1700 rpm. That's my go to speed for turning.

You turn by hand? I would try "riding the bevel" with this material. It creates more of a shearing cut rather than a scraping cut. Less chance of a piece breaking off or chipping. It's a technique used to achieve very smooth cuts.

Riding the Bevel - NewWoodworker.com LLC

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Thank you! I have been hand turning for almost 70 years and no-one has shown me that. Always used scraping as my dad taught me.
~Richard
I have eaten more than one chunk of broken plastic caused by internal stress. Acrylesters are pretty good without extra care.

If you notice variations in the force needed to make a cut, then you might do as we did for years with plastic rod and sheet:
If there are hard spots or internal tension, there will be surprises in the turning and machining.
Put it at about 280 degrees F raising to that temperature slowly for a few hours to anneal all the parts of the rod to the same hardness and relieve internal tension. Let it slowly come to room temperature. I do not know if home cast is the same as purchased cast acrylic but the difference between cast and extruded was significant in hard spots.

From Carville Plastics
How to stress relieve acrylic and other plastics

All cast and extruded plastic materials will carry internal stress. To ensure stable dimensions and a long life for precision component parts, it is essential that materials are correctly heat treated to remove all material stress.

On material such as acrylic, it is necessary to heat treat the material to a temperature of 140⁰C and to cool slowly under controlled condition. This initial heat treatment, or normalising process, will result in material shrinkage of between 2% and 4%.

All plastic materials used by Carville are fully heat treated before any machining operations take place. Subject to the material or component size, these heat treatment processes can require anywhere between 24 and 96 hours.

There is a lot more information on line as to the timing etc.
Be safe!
~Richard

Nice idea I really like the look and have not seen it before, good work!
Rob

Curious,How are you geting the casting out of the PVC,or are you just turning it off?

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Curious,How are you geting the casting out of the PVC,or are you just turning it off?

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It comes out with a little tap. Since it's not a real mold, I spray a mold release to help it a little. The molds that are slightly flexible seem to work great without the spray.

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Originally Posted by JimmyWetshaver

Very cool. Have you contemplated simply painting the isiude of the knot hole black (or any color of your choosing) like they used to do with the old clear acrylic brush handles? Might be cool especially if you get creative with your color selections. Just a thought.

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Yes that's a good one and I may try that with that green sample. Like you said you could probably do some neat color combinations...thanks for the suggestion

One way to have a bubble free casting is to make the mold at least twice as high as necessary and use a vacuum generator to drop the pressure as close to "0" as possible. The mix will foam up a lot and then will subside and the bubbles from mixing and moisture retention will be on the surface of the pour. Do this about three times to assure all the trapped gas is removed.
I have been mixing and casting resins at a workplace from 66 until 2002. This is the same routine that the folks use for stabilizing wood where the vacuum pulls the mix into the wood's pores and removes moisture while doing so.
A Urethane is particularly bad at absorbing moisture during mixing.
~Richard

Thanks Richard. I found a good article online with the pros and cons of esters, urethanes and epoxies and it notes that same sensitivity for urethanes to moisture. So far for what I've been doing the polyester has behaved nice without bubbles and fairly user friendly.
I love learning new processes and materials - thanks for the info!

Awesome!! May have to research the process too!!
Well done!

Ray

That is a really nice brush there great work

Thanks for sharing Royalcake!
That turned out great!! I like it, have not seen anything like that before. Reminds me of the old super balls that I would get out of the quater machines. Bu This way cooler!

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Originally Posted by Trimmy72

Thanks for sharing Royalcake!
That turned out great!! I like it, have not seen anything like that before. Reminds me of the old super balls that I would get out of the quater machines. Bu This way cooler!

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Thanks. Yeah waiting for a new tool to turn then one and keep experimenting. It's a lot of fun

How the actual f do you have time for these handles when your also sanding blade faces!?!?

On a serious note I admire your creativity on the brushes. Someday I'm going to have to get one from you.

Very creative, interesting thread, brushes look very good.

Well I've got some work I need to start at home and that means I need to move my lathe around, and before that I need to finish something for a fellow member, which means I need to get this brush done and out of the chuck!
Man this stuff keeps you on your TOES! It just wants to chip. That and I'm no pro with a lathe tool in my hand.
Geometry of my rest and a nice sharp cutter helped immensely, but nerve wracking the whole time. Riding the bevel as you guys told me was a winner.

Anyway, I left the bore "frosted" by not sanding it, but then the epoxy brought it clear. Lesson learned for next time. I'll enjoy using this guy as an experiment and move on to try another :)

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Damn I swore I would stick with my boar cheapie but your forcing me into having to have one of your brushes. Killing me

It looks nice,keep at it.you will figure it out.
This is the first and last brush I ever did in Phenolic (do not like working with plastics.
54MM Boar knot,was about 2 + lbs.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...BigBoar001.jpg

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

It looks nice,keep at it.you will figure it out.
This is the first and last brush I ever did in Phenolic (do not like working with plastics.
54MM Boar knot,was about 2 + lbs.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...BigBoar001.jpg

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You could use that to shave a boar! That's huge...