Pay Pal Policy Changes

Just a small item from pages of proposed changes to Pay Poops policies becoming effective in November. I think increasing the dispute filing window may cause legit sellers some grief if less than honest buyers decide to work this change to their advantage.

:deal:

1. Dispute Filing Window
   We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days. All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.

1. 10.1(b)
   PayPal’s Seller Protection and Buyer Protection policies may vary from country to country. If you as a seller, sell an item to a buyer from another country, you will be subject to the Buyer and Seller Protection policies applicable to your buyer’s country and required to reimburse PayPal for any payment or refund to your buyer made pursuant to that other country’s policy. We are revising section 11.1 to reflect this.

It is unfortunate that we live in a society where we always have to be on guard for dishonest people. What ever happened to a mans word being a standard of honesty. It is good for cross border shopping that the window is wider for legitimate reasons, as in slow travel of a package. I wish we could have predictable shipping times, but I do recall as a buyer having a package take more than 45 days from US to Canada. I am used to slow shipping. The shipper was having a fit it was taking so long. It arrived about 48 days after having been shipped. It was tracked and insured so i was not as concerned as the shipper. Had it have gotten lost we would have sorted it out without paypal, because we are both honest people, however...

The only reason paypal still is so powerfull is that banks are so against simple bank transfer to foreign countries.
Paypal are scum, but at least they're affordable. Banks literally slap a 100$ fee on a 50$ transfer.
Within the UE, bank to bank transfer are as good as free. Transfer to an American bank would be stupid expensive.

Do bank tranfers all the time within the U.S,do's not cost a dime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Do bank tranfers all the time within the U.S,do's not cost a dime.

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I don't know about that,,,:hmmm: transfer some money to my account & we will test the validity of that statement,,,:shrug:

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Do bank tranfers all the time within the U.S,do's not cost a dime.

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Yeah, but try sending money to Belgium. Or Australia. :)
Try sending a modest amount. Say 100$.
Paypal are scum but at least they only take a couple % whereas the bank will take so much it isn't practical.

Do not know about bank transfers outside the U.S,paypal to me is fantastic,quik, easy. instant,3% fee
Bruno, you sell razors on SRP,do you use Paypal? for your transactions??

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Do not know about bank transfers outside the U.S,paypal to me is fantastic,quik, easy. instant,3% fee
Bruno, you sell razors on SRP,do you use Paypal? for your transactions??

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I always use paypal for worldwide payments. fee is something lik 3% and a bit + some small fixed amount.
For payments within the EU usually both the buyer and I prefer a bank transfer because it is free and does not require there to be money in your paypal account or (a visa /amex payment.)

And for the seller there is the added benefit of not being at the mercy of the whims of paypal arbitration.

If you do a wire transfer from the U.S to outside prepare to get soaked. A number of years ago I bought a watch out of the Netherlands and they would only accept a wire transfer. So my bank changed a fee, the actual transfer was done by Amex and they tacked on their fee and the first bank in Europe tacked on their fee and they gave me a terrible exchange rate.

That was the first and last time for that experience.

I've lost money under their old policy because I gave the seller the benefit of the doubt and waited too for the item to arrive before trying to open a dispute. Paypal told me - too bad we can't help you. I doubt that a buyer can get a refund under item not as described if he doesn't claim that soon after receiving it.
It probably helps mostly with shipping delays which certainly happen fairly often. If the shipping service takes two or three months and the buyer only has 45 days to open a dispute the seller can get screwed by the delay - paypal will refund the money and if the buyer later receives the item he can simply keep it at the seller's expense.

I just don't see the longer period for settling problems as a negative, if anything it is positive because it better reflects reality. As long as any arbitration is done sensibly it should work much better.

The second change seems fairly neutral - if they have to have different rules (makes sense with different jurisdictions) it should be clear ahead of time which rules apply to every transaction. Each side has the power to simply not engage in a transaction if they don't like the rules that would apply to it, so I don't see an inherent problem with it.

It is possible to do bank transfers in USA but it's nothing like in EU. The US clearing system is way too outdated because it was designed in the 70s with completely different sensibilities. It is essentially a computer implementation of physical exchange of financial instruments and mirrors the limitations of the old system that no longer exist. The system is programmed to essentially work on 'bankers hours' and does as ridiculous as it sounds to us today (these computers are turned on 24/7 and there is no reason to be idling on weekends or to have a daily cut-off on processing).

Of course, the main advantage of paypal over bank transfer is the arbitration of disputes they offer which you don't get with a bank transfer. For a 3% overhead I find it a pretty good deal in most cases esp. involving purchases from unknown parties, but there are also plenty of times when it makes no sense to pay for that.

I guess I am lucky,have never had an issue with PP or any arbitrations,the 3% fee to me is part of doing Business.
If I do an international Transfer (very rare) I make the buyer pay the fees.

That expanded window for buyers to dispute is ridiculous. The 45 days was bad enough. As soon as I read it I began thinking of finding different venues where paypal is not the default method of payment. Only use it as a last resort. The 3% fee is just the cost of doing business, like insuring the item.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

That expanded window for buyers to dispute is ridiculous. The 45 days was bad enough. As soon as I read it I began thinking of finding different venues where paypal is not the default method of payment. Only use it as a last resort. The 3% fee is just the cost of doing business, like insuring the item.

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You use PP Jim,have you ever had a dispute?

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

You use PP Jim,have you ever had a dispute?

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Oh yes, more then I can remember. Always me against the seller and paypal always sided with me. They are usually partial to the buyer IMO. OTOH, I only brought disputes against sellers who misrepresented items and wouldn't offer a return.

Just lucky I guess,Been using PP since day one, never an issue.

I think they did a big mistake. The 180 days should be tied to late receipt of the item. In a way it means the transaction is really not complete for 180 days.

Nah, I do not think it's a mistake at all - transactions that are funded through credit cards are subject to chargebacks for something like 120 days depending on when it happened in the billing cycle and the specific terms of the credit card (may be even longer).
And that's between the buyer and paypal with the credit card issuer as a mediator. Or worse between the buyer and the seller with the credit card issuer as a mediator, but paypal liable to assume payment reversals.

It is far better for paypal to be the mediator than one of the sides, especially if when they lose they may not be able to recover any money from the other party because of their terms. I am willing to bet money that this last part is the real cause for the change.

Those changes seems fairly reasonable to me.
Unlike most around here, I find Paypal to be a stellar service that I'm happy to see in the market-place.
Granted, I use it exclusively to send money or pay for items I buy.
Hardly ever do I find myself in the receiving end of the transaction.

Using bank transfers as an alternative will simply put inform anyone of what a great service Paypal provides.
For international money transfers that is.

It has opened up a market-place otherwise completely inaccessible to me, and provided superb protection on transactions that has gone sour.
I heart Paypal...

Go back to the 1990s,Pre paypal,The beginning of Ebay and online shopping in general.
Was all, Cashiers cks,cash or Postal Money orders,Trip to the bank,trip to the post office,Transactions took weeks at times.
I love hitting the pay button,instant reciept.in most cases same day shipping with reputable buyers,is all good stuff:)