Northern wall between USA and Canada?

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Originally Posted by diesel

There are many legitimate reasons why a Man would want to cross a border to avoid taking part in such a conflict, some of which reasonable individuals might even regard as laudable, chief among which would be the unwillingness to participate in actions that would lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, Women Children and Men. It could be deemed by some a right if not an obligation to resist being complicit in the folly of ones government. I mean no disrespect to you but I have no problem in calling an individual who takes a principled decision not to be a part of what he sees as an indefensible atrocity no less a Man than one who serves in what he may call a just war.

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Yes I can see both POVs. I can also understand why it would rankle, to put it mildly, those that did serve, survived and lost many friends along the way. Those unseen wounds almost never heal even with time.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

I'm not at all trying to throw the cat amongst the pigeons with this, but while I absolutely do respect your service, I am equally grateful for many of those whose life look a different turn from yours at that time. Three of the absolute finest profs I had as an undergrad fall into that category. And yes, they are people I respect completely as men to this day. That goes, too, for the other profs from the US (that I knew both as a student and as a faculty member) whose journey to Canada came after they had served in Vietnam.

Different paths, my friends. :)

Hang on a second... if that wall was built, all these Unitedstatesians wouldn't be up here teaching and researching and the academic job market might open up again. They may be on to something! :rofl2:

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Kris,

I understand what you're saying and in many ways I may agree. I probably should have passed on the post, but seeing what's happening in the U.S. and elsewhere makes me just, well, kind of sit down and try to make sense of all of it.

I guess I had to vent after decades of frustration. Didn't help much though.

Have a great day!! :D

Best Regards,

Howard :)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honestly this was just a cute way of me saying Thank You to all the Canadian Firefighters down here helping us out

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It's sure been smokey up here, quite the fires over there. Hope they'll be knocked down soon and all is well for you guys.

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Originally Posted by diesel

There are many legitimate reasons why a Man would want to cross a border to avoid taking part in such a conflict, some of which reasonable individuals might even regard as laudable, chief among which would be the unwillingness to participate in actions that would lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, Women Children and Men. It could be deemed by some a right if not an obligation to resist being complicit in the folly of ones government. I mean no disrespect to you but I have no problem in calling an individual who takes a principled decision not to be a part of what he sees as an indefensible atrocity no less a Man than one who serves in what he may call a just war.

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Taking a a principled stand is indeed a noble thing especially when a strong majority is against you. To run from the consequences of that stand, not so much. The noble thing is to face the consequences / prosecution / persecution of that stand.

Gentlemen, please. Let's not drift into the characteristics of who qualifies as manly in this thread. Start another for that. We're hedging too close to politics and other values that drift us away from our friendly relations with Canadians and our commonalities.

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Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

Taking a a principled stand is indeed a noble thing especially when a strong majority is against you. To run from the consequences of that stand, not so much. The noble thing is to face the consequences / prosecution / persecution of that stand.

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To decide not to be part of the killing is nobility enough I would have thought. History is full of those who have made outlaws of themselves for a principle. The sacrifice of leaving your home country because your home country is engaged in what you believe to be abhorrent is commendable.

Considering the news that our country is in fact in a "technical recession", I'm surprised the campaigns of our prospective leaders have not latched on to this wall thing as an economic stimulus plan. Just think of all the jobs that would be created just building, let alone maintaining the thing!

Reminds me of the old Rhino Party plan to knock down the Rocky Mountains. Not only as a massive make-work project, but also to remove an east-west barrier. :)

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Originally Posted by diesel

To decide not to be part of the killing is nobility enough I would have thought. History is full of those who have made outlaws of themselves for a principle. The sacrifice of leaving your home country because your home country is engaged in what you believe to be abhorrent is commendable.

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Quite so but sometimes noble principles can seem to be an excuse for cowardice. It's a tough area to descern what the real motives are/were and as a consequence hard to impossible to make a blanket judgement on all.

Bob

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Originally Posted by rodb

Good luck building a 3000+ mile fence through dense forests and mountains and great lakes...lol!

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Agreed.

A totally stupid concept. Living in Wisconsin, I think our gov is not presidential material.

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Originally Posted by rolodave

Agreed.

A totally stupid concept. Living in Wisconsin, I think our gov is not presidential material.

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As an outsider I might tend to agree with you on both counts.

Bob