President of the US of A

"Anyone who studies present and ancient affairs will easily see how in all cities and all peoples there still exist, and have always existed, the same desires and passions. Thus, it is an easy matter for him who carefully examines past events to foresee future events in a republic and to apply the remedies employed by the ancients, or, if old remedies cannot be found, to devise new ones based upon the similarity of the events. But since these matters are neglected or not understood by those who read, or, if understood, remain unknown to those who govern, the result is that the same problems always exist in every era."

- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Discourses

I like that Thatcher quote too. Though I think you could replace Socialism with any form of economic philosophy so long as a Government collects other people's money as tax.

For example, whose countries here are not Socialist and are running a deficit (ie have run out of other people's money)?

James.

Wow-I'm amazed this thread has gone on for 11 pages! That speaks well for the gentlemanly restraint that is the culture of this forum, even by those with obviously strong opinions. Like an an increasing number of Americans, I'm not sure it matters that much which side wins the presidency anymore. This country has been sliding into oligarchy for decades now, and it seems obvious that both Congress and the President are bought and paid for, and seem only to do the bidding of their corporate masters (thanks most recently to the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision and Washington's revolving-door lobbying culture). Technology, globalization, the devaluing of labor in favor of finance, and corporate mergers into giant "too big to fail" institutions have turned America's once proud manufacturing and "Main Street" brand of capitalism into a rapacious corporism that has mostly abandoned any pretense of corporate citizenship. Not to mention that what political scientists and commentators call "the Deep State" really is the tail that wags the dog (as Kennedy and LBJ famously found out); even Eisenhower in his famous speech tried to warn us of the growing power of the military-industrial complex. Add to that an incredibly stratified media, television and internet environment in which partisans on both sides mostly curate what "news" they consume (which is one reason I try to look at a variety of sources from across the political spectrum before making up my mind on an issue).

Anyway, sorry about the cynical rant. I know it's all over the place, but that's kind of the point. We're failing all over the place, regardless of who we elect. I have said for years, and I'll continue to say it. You can trace every problem this country has back to simple human greed-follow the money, as they say.

Oh, and I'll toss this out just to stir the pot a little: Hillary Clinton is a republican in a pants-suit. :whipped:

The Republicans have enough folks running for the nomination. They don't need any more.

This year's presidential election will an interesting one. Been very entertaining watching some of the nominees. Always fun to watch the gloves come off when it gets closer and closer to election time. Same in every country.

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Wow-I'm amazed this thread has gone on for 11 pages! That speaks well for the gentlemanly restraint that is the culture of this forum, even by those with obviously strong opinions. Like an an increasing number of Americans, I'm not sure it matters that much which side wins the presidency anymore. This country has been sliding into oligarchy for decades now, and it seems obvious that both Congress and the President are bought and paid for, and seem only to do the bidding of their corporate masters (thanks most recently to the Supreme Court's Citizens United decision and Washington's revolving-door lobbying culture). Technology, globalization, the devaluing of labor in favor of finance, and corporate mergers into giant "too big to fail" institutions have turned America's once proud manufacturing and "Main Street" brand of capitalism into a rapacious corporism that has mostly abandoned any pretense of corporate citizenship. Not to mention that what political scientists and commentators call "the Deep State" really is the tail that wags the dog (as Kennedy and LBJ famously found out); even Eisenhower in his famous speech tried to warn us of the growing power of the military-industrial complex. Add to that an incredibly stratified media, television and internet environment in which partisans on both sides mostly curate what "news" they consume (which is one reason I try to look at a variety of sources from across the political spectrum before making up my mind on an issue).

Anyway, sorry about the cynical rant. I know it's all over the place, but that's kind of the point. We're failing all over the place, regardless of who we elect. I have said for years, and I'll continue to say it. You can trace every problem this country has back to simple human greed-follow the money, as they say.

Oh, and I'll toss this out just to stir the pot a little: Hillary Clinton is a republican in a pants-suit. :whipped:

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Well said. I reckon you're dead accurate, both about the gentlemanly restraint that has been shown and about who's pulling the strings.

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Oh, and I'll toss this out just to stir the pot a little: Hillary Clinton is a republican in a pants-suit. :whipped:

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I would agree with you in that current politicians who are members of the now so called "Republican" establishment are Democrats wearing red elephant pins....

ChrisL

If that's true then Republicans should have no trouble voting for Hillary. :)

Everyone is shifting to the Right in our politics too. I think it reflects the population in times like these. When people are scared they become a lot more socially and economically conservative.

I mean, when a country who prides itself on its history of immigration and indeed was built on and became great because of immigration, actually gives any level of credence to the things coming out of Trump's mouth, you know there's got to be a level of fear behind it IMO.

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I mean, when a country who prides itself on its history of immigration and indeed was built on and became great because of immigration, actually gives any level of credence to the things coming out of Trump's mouth, you know there's got to be a level of fear behind it IMO.

James.

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This is not the same country it was 50 years ago. Immigration was fine when we had immigrants who assimilated into the country and became Americans in thought, word, and deed. More or less we were largely all on the same page.

Read the stats about countries round the world whose native population have a very low birth rate, and who are being overrun with immigrants from the middle east with very high birth rates. Immigrants who do not assimilate, but want Sharia law for example.

My people were immigrants from Eastern Europe. They learned the language and customs of the USA. It is sort of funny, we Caucasian Americans came over here from across the water. We conquered the native population and basically stole their lands.

We bought Louisiana from the French, who had stolen it from the native populace. And then because of 'Manifest Destiny' (google it) we expanded our borders and stole New Mexico, Arizona, Texas and California from the Mexicans. Montezuma's revenge, they have stolen it back without firing a shot !

People worry about war with China. They have already conquered us. I went to look for a circular saw made in the USA and there are none. They, and basically all construction power tools are made in China.

We, our country owes them so much money that if we never borrowed another cent from this day forth our great grand children will still be indebted to them. Our 'representatives' gave them our manufacturing jobs first, then the white collar jobs began to be offshored as well.

Proverbs says that the borrower is the slave to the lender. What does that make us ?

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

If that's true then Republicans should have no trouble voting for Hillary. :)

Everyone is shifting to the Right in our politics too. I think it reflects the population in times like these. When people are scared they become a lot more socially and economically conservative.

I mean, when a country who prides itself on its history of immigration and indeed was built on and became great because of immigration, actually gives any level of credence to the things coming out of Trump's mouth, you know there's got to be a level of fear behind it IMO.

James.

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Can't argue that at all. We just had a decade of the swing to the right and people here had enough of it go slightly left this last election. You get tired of living in a climate of fear, real or imagined. Mind you, the middle ground in politics has shifted to the right so those on the left were dragged with it too. I do not think the middle ground will shift back any time soon.

Bob