Something Different for Your Daily Commute.

This is something that I have passively followed for more than a decade. I've generally been fascinated by innovative & new concepts in the automotive industry, with a special focus on ultra-high mileage & aerodynamic efficient designs. Most of the time, I simply stumbled upon articles or a news segment spotlighting the company/expected product.

The first one that I can remember is from more than a decade ago:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptera_Motors
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Alas, this one went belly up in 2011. It doesn't help that the projected price tag was somewhere between 20k & 40k. During the closure of the company, the employees were ordered to destroy all vehicles that were made, in order to protect the patents. Supposedly, it was bought by a Chinese auto manufacturer. But I don't think anything effective has happened to it since.

I also became aware of Elio Motors during the time of Aptera's period of operation. This one, honestly, has me a bit excited.
https://www.eliomotors.com
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They have a very practical approach, and seem to be very grounded in their goals. 84 mpg, with a price tag of roughly $7,800. They have used crowdfunding in the form of selling reservations for "Spots In Line", allowing folks to secure what order they get their vehicle off the production line. They are using as many "off the shelf" parts as they can, in an effort to keep the price low. This also means parts have already been used reliably in other vehicles ;). They actually bought an old, long shuttered GM plant to use as their factory, as well. When I looked them up again recently, I was pleased to discover they have maintained their company blog with new posts several times a week! They've pushed back the official release date a couple of times, but they still seem to be close to fruition.

First of all, I have no connection or vested interests with any of the mentioned companies or products! I'd love to buy a reservation for an Elio, but have never had the funds to spare. This was just something I wanted to bring up. Not everyone is as comfortable being "outside the box" as me. That's fine.

Also, somewhat bizarrely, I don't "have a thing" for motorcycles :shrug:. But these things are neat. I'd like to know if any other folks here have heard of these? Or other likewise nifty transportation thingys?

There have been a slew of vehicles of this type designed over the years. With SUVs selling better than cars and low gas prices these all have little chance of ever actually being sold and if they are sold they will never be big sellers.

For electric to become mainstream there needs to be a major breakthrough in battery design so electric vehicles can go as far as gas vehicles on one charge. Probably Hydrogen is the way to go right now.

They periodically catch my eye. There are a few companies from India that are doing some amazing things. One company has a car that uses compressed air, and has a backup diesel compressor built in. Even if you air exclusively on the compressor the mileage is still crazy. There is another company also from India that builds extremely inexpensive, very tiny cars, that use very little fuel. They have recently started selling cars in the U.K.. The issue most people have with owning and driving a high economy car is most have very little get up and go. In Canada and the US we do a lot of open road and highway driving, where as there are a lot of places where driving is mostly done in very high congestion areas do not have the ability to go fast and for those places the high efficiency cars are very sensible. I cannot imagine trying to drive one of the high effiency cars on a cross country trip, and certainly not with my driving habits. There have been some nice diesel cars come out in recent years that are a nice medium for where I drive cars. At home a pick up is most sensible. I am intrigued though, very intrigued.

I just saw an electric car charging station for the first time this weekend. It was in a Wal-Mart parking lot in a rural area outside Kansas City.

Toyota sells the mirai which is hydrogen cell fueled but you can only get them in California and even then there are only a handful of fueling stations. The fuel is somewhat more expensive than gasoline and it's basically an electric car with the H system recharging the batteries.

Electric cars need some more years to develop batteries that will allow you to drive at highway speeds for at least 300-400 miles. They also need to have the support infrastructure in place to allow you to do so. Still a long way to go on that front too.

As of now anyone needing an fuel efficient pick up or SUV is better off with diesel power. Unfortunately the way the petro industry has jacked the price of diesel higher than gasoline and the huge added cost of buying the diesel option you would never come ahead on the deal.

Sometimes life just sucks.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

Electric cars need some more years to develop batteries that will allow you to drive at highway speeds for at least 300-400 miles. They also need to have the support infrastructure in place to allow you to do so. Still a long way to go on that front too.

As of now anyone needing an fuel efficient pick up or SUV is better off with diesel power. Unfortunately the way the petro industry has jacked the price of diesel higher than gasoline and the huge added cost of buying the diesel option you would never come ahead on the deal.

Sometimes life just sucks.

Bob

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Tesla is already making cars that will go that range, and with over 800 superchargers all over the US, even some in Canada as well. You can go cross country with using only their charge stations.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Tesla is already making cars that will go that range, and with over 800 superchargers all over the US, even some in Canada as well. You can go cross country with using only their charge stations.

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This may be true, and a commendable effort on their part, but it does little for the average person. Cars that cost well over a hundred thousand do not fall into the "car of the people" category.

I think hybrid cars are going about it the wrong way. The majority try to have duel power systems (battery or I.C.E. or both simultaneously). It's more practical to have an electric car, with an onboard generator! Generators, like those used for emergency power, can be very efficient, and crank out a lot of electricity. I think the show "Top Gear (U.K.)" made their own example of this out of scratch, using the chassis from a Jaguar IIRC. It had all the aerodynamic grace of a toaster, but it was amusing to see what they could accomplish with their limited skill set lol.

Diesel really isn't much of an alternative to petrol. They both have pro's & con's, and take turns being most expensive. I think the "same thing but different" alternative is biodiesel conversions that run on used fryer oil. A lot of times, owners of such grease-mobiles get their fuel for free from Chinese restaurants & such because the restaurant would otherwise have to pay for disposal of the oil that they usually change daily.

From a practical standpoint, I prefer ultra-high mileage vehicles that run on regular gasoline. Before the Elio came along, the Toyota Yaris had caught my eye. It is very similar mpg to the Prius, but uses a normal four-cylinder engine, cost about half the price, and doesn't have hundreds of pounds of batteries that circle the globe several times (from mining/refining the materials, to assembly, to installation).

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Tesla is already making cars that will go that range, and with over 800 superchargers all over the US, even some in Canada as well. You can go cross country with using only their charge stations.

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Yes that is true but last I looked any e car that I could afford had a miserable range on the road. Also last I looked the next charging station down the road toward Winnipeg was about 200 miles away which is about half way there. Then there is the problem of e cars using different types of charging stations with different rates of charging.

They really need to have better infrastructure in Canada and they also must have a standardize charging system that is quick. A lot of work yet to be done to make e cars practical vehicles for long distance driving here.

Bob

I love the idea of reducing dependence on fossil fuels but my problem with most of those super-efficient cars is that they are so small. They will continue to be deathtraps until all other cars are reduced in size and weight and the heavy freight is moved alternatively from our roadways. The few $$$ that you save on gas would barely pay for your headstone.

There are a lot of good points in this thread. Diesel and bio diesel are pretty much interchangeable these days. There are some crazy efficient diesel cars and although the cost and emission difference is not that much different than gas, when you can get the crazy mpg out of the diesel it just makes sense. I think I have seen it before on some sort of science show where they were running an electric car off of an on board generator and getting very high ratings for mpg. The thought that small cars are not as safe as big cars is simply not true. Also if you have ever seen large SUVs and big luxury sedans that have been caught in a tangle with a transport truck, no one survives those either. The big difference being that it is easier to write off a small car, in fact you can write them off in accidents that are not much more than a fender bender. A couple of years ago we were out shopping for a new car for my wife for her commuter car. Honda Civic gets better gas mileage than a a Toyota Prius and costs around half as much. Also the Civic has a more comfortable interior. Neither of those cars fall into what I would consider ultra efficient.

Another thing to consider with hybrid or electric cars is that there is no free lunch. You may drastically reduce emissions while driving these but how much pollution are you causing by mining the raw material, then making these lithium batteries and finally disposing of them? Another point is how clean is the source that you use to supply the electricity to an e car? I wonder if it is a zero sum game in the end. You may in the end just wind up shifting where the pollution is introduced into the environment.

Bob

That was my point when mentioning the Toyota Yaris & Prius: they are only separated by a few mpg (last time I checked), but the hybrid jas batteries that circle the globe a few times by the time the car is sold to the end consumer. I dare say that would offset one's carbon footprint they are trying to reduce.

Speaking of global economy, which car sold in the U.S. is the most "American made"? A few years ago, the Toyota Camry had the highest percentage of parts & material produced in the United States. I thought that was hilarious when I heard it! :rofl2::roflmao Heck... there a one or two plants right here in Indiana that produce that car :tu.