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Thread: Covid new reality

  1. #81
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulFLUS View Post
    Dearest Paul?....

    Okay, how about this? Since, as the original poster I am supposed to maintain the decorem of the thread and see that it stays on topic or however it goes let me refer you to the original post and quote myself, "Hopefully this can be free from politics and societal wrangling, just a pictorial guide with a synopsis of what it means." That being the case this is off topic. Since we are supposed to be respectful to each other I will ask your pardon for the tone of my previous remarks and politely ask that respect is shown in return.
    I know that some people enjoy debating/arguing or whatever you want to call it and I have my own moments. That is not what this thread was started for.

    Dearest Paul:

    Are you asking me as a Senior Mod to close this thread, a simple answer will do ...

    If so I will move this request to the Mod Forum and see what the consensus is, it really is that easy
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by STF View Post
    NHS is a shitshow?

    Just as well you moved to the States I guess, hows that medical working out for ya, nice and free like the Nationa Health is it?
    Steve you and I know both well the NHS is free "at the point of use". Where do you think your tax money goes?

    Average worker earning between 12,500 to 50,000 GBP pays 20% income tax alone. Between 50,000 and 150,000 it's an average 40% income tax. (https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates)

    A worker earning between 184 to 967 GBP a week pays 12% National Insurance. (https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance/how-much-you-pay)

    Now NI is meant to cover costs but the NHS has been in constant shortfall for years now so some of the general taxation is going to plug up costs.

    Do the math on how "free" the NHS is. Now what does a British person get for that spend? Let's ask the Nuffield Trust and it's 2018 report (no COVID interference) (https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/new...health-systems)

    "Key strengths of the UK’s NHS include:

    It provides unusually good financial protection to the public from the consequences of ill health. "

    Ok so it's good for the poor.

    "Key weaknesses include:

    The UK’s NHS performs worse than the average in the treatment of 8 out of the 12 most common causes of death, including deaths within 30 days of having a heart attack and within five years of being diagnosed with breast cancer, rectal cancer, colon cancer, pancreatic cancer and lung cancer, despite narrowing the gap in recent years. [4]
    It is the third poorest performer compared to the 18 developed countries on the overall rate at which people die when successful medical care could have saved their lives (known as ‘amenable mortality’).
    It has consistently higher rates of death for babies at birth or just after (perinatal mortality), and in the month after birth (neonatal mortality): 7 in 1000 babies died at birth or in the week afterwards in the UK in 2016, compared to an average of 5.5 across the comparator countries."

    But you're getting some of the worst outcomes in the developed world for the key illnesses which are most likely to kill you.

    "Other findings include:

    The UK is in the middle of the pack when it comes to the length of time people wait for treatment: people requiring a hip replacement waited around 97 days in the UK in 2015, compared to 150 days in Spain and 42 days in the Netherlands. A&E waits are also average, according to survey data.
    The NHS has a lower than average number of staff for all professional groups except midwives: in the UK there is one doctor for every 356 people, compared to one for every 277 people on average across the comparator countries.
    The UK has very low levels of hospital beds and the lowest levels of both CT and MRI scanners: it has fewer beds per person than 16 of the 18 other countries.
    "

    And when you're dying good luck getting a bed.
    Last edited by thp001; 01-13-2022 at 06:56 PM.
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  3. #83
    STF
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    Quote Originally Posted by thp001 View Post
    Steve you and I know both well the NHS is free "at the point of use". Where do you think your tax money goes?

    Average worker earning between 12,500 to 50,000 GBP pays 20% income tax alone. Between 50,000 and 150,000 it's an average 40% income tax. (https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates)

    A worker earning between 184 to 967 GBP a week pays 12% National Insurance. (https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance/how-much-you-pay)

    Now NI is meant to cover costs but the NHS has been in constant shortfall for years now so some of the general taxation is going to plug up costs.

    Do the math on how "free" the NHS is. Now what does a British person get for that spend? Let's ask the Nuffield Trust and it's 2018 report (no COVID interference) (
    Ssh Tem, don't tell everyone.

    Ignore him Englands great, free National Health.
    - - Steve

    You never realize what you have until it's gone -- Toilet paper is a good example

  4. #84
    Senior Member blabbermouth PaulFLUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gssixgun View Post
    Dearest Paul:

    Are you asking me as a Senior Mod to close this thread, a simple answer will do ...

    If so I will move this request to the Mod Forum and see what the consensus is, it really is that easy
    Is that supposed to hurt my feelings or something Glenn? Grow up man. You can condescend to me or insult me however much you want I really don't care.

    Am I asking you as a senior moderator to close the thread? No, I don't want to close the thread. What I'd like you to do is show a little common courtesy and keep this post about what it's about. I mean, I have been asked not to post political or social commentary in posts, hell, I've even had my posts removed. I didn't particularly like it but if that's part of getting along with everyone else then I'll play along. Of course I guess if you're a "senior moderator" you don't have to play by those same rules.
    I just get really tired of hearing you and the other usual suspects arguing the same argument over and over and over again about the same topic like a bunch of old women. There are plenty of posts where that takes place and I normally just avoid those but since this is a post that I started what I would like is for it to not get hijacked and to stay about what it was about but then we don't always get what we want do we? Unless, that is, you're a "senior moderator."
    You know, you guys talk about participation waning and membership not growing or even diminishing. You want to know why? It's because of the way you guys act. I swear it's like kindergarten for grown-ups. I used to invite people to the site but I don't do it anymore because you guys run them all off.Its embarrassing to try to share the cool things about this site when a few of you act like overgrown kids on a playground. Either you insult them or you exclude them because they're not cool enough or whatever it is.

    Hey, it's your site you do whatever you want. It's just really sad is what it is.

    If your intention is to insult me and make me go away then good luck with that. Aside from the few people who I have already referred to I've made some really good friendships here and I intend to keep those going. If it gives you a jolly to be rude to me and insult me then go right ahead. Personally I've got better things to do than even pay attention to it.
    As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another. PR 27:17

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    Quote Originally Posted by STF View Post
    Ssh Tem, don't tell everyone.

    Ignore him Englands great, free National Health.
    I don't think any country's medical system no matter how it is setup, funded and run has has been a shining light during this pandemic. All have been running out of beds to treat Covid 19 during each wave so far. They were never setup to handle a pandemic like Covid 19. There might be some merit in comparing them during pre pandemic times when things were normal but not now.

    Bob
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  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobH View Post
    I don't think any country's medical system no matter how it is setup, funded and run has has been a shining light during this pandemic. All have been running out of beds to treat Covid 19 during each wave so far. They were never setup to handle a pandemic like Covid 19. There might be some merit in comparing them during pre pandemic times when things were normal but not now.

    Bob
    Question

    Are your doctors fudging the numbers on "From" covid vs "With" covid we just found out there is a 40-50% discrepancy here and has been for two years.. Anyone who said that in the past was accused of spreading misinformation, turned out it was true...
    "No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
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  8. #87
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Quote Originally Posted by gssixgun View Post
    Question

    Are your doctors fudging the numbers on "From" covid vs "With" covid we just found out there is a 40-50% discrepancy here and has been for two years.. Anyone who said that in the past was accused of spreading misinformation, turned out it was true...
    Couldn't say but does it really matter as either way they should be isolated in a Covid 19 ward?

    Bob
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    Quote Originally Posted by thp001 View Post
    Steve you and I know both well the NHS is free "at the point of use". Where do you think your tax money goes?

    Average worker earning between 12,500 to 50,000 GBP pays 20% income tax alone. Between 50,000 and 150,000 it's an average 40% income tax. (https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates)

    A worker earning between 184 to 967 GBP a week pays 12% National Insurance. (https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance/how-much-you-pay)

    Now NI is meant to cover costs but the NHS has been in constant shortfall for years now so some of the general taxation is going to plug up costs.

    Do the math on how "free" the NHS is. Now what does a British person get for that spend? Let's ask the Nuffield Trust and it's 2018 report (no COVID interference) (https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/new...health-systems)

    "Key strengths of the UK’s NHS include:

    It provides unusually good financial protection to the public from the consequences of ill health. "

    Ok so it's good for the poor.

    "Key weaknesses include:

    The UK’s NHS performs worse than the average in the treatment of 8 out of the 12 most common causes of death, including deaths within 30 days of having a heart attack and within five years of being diagnosed with breast cancer, rectal cancer, colon cancer, pancreatic cancer and lung cancer, despite narrowing the gap in recent years. [4]
    It is the third poorest performer compared to the 18 developed countries on the overall rate at which people die when successful medical care could have saved their lives (known as ‘amenable mortality’).
    It has consistently higher rates of death for babies at birth or just after (perinatal mortality), and in the month after birth (neonatal mortality): 7 in 1000 babies died at birth or in the week afterwards in the UK in 2016, compared to an average of 5.5 across the comparator countries."

    But you're getting some of the worst outcomes in the developed world for the key illnesses which are most likely to kill you.

    "Other findings include:

    The UK is in the middle of the pack when it comes to the length of time people wait for treatment: people requiring a hip replacement waited around 97 days in the UK in 2015, compared to 150 days in Spain and 42 days in the Netherlands. A&E waits are also average, according to survey data.
    The NHS has a lower than average number of staff for all professional groups except midwives: in the UK there is one doctor for every 356 people, compared to one for every 277 people on average across the comparator countries.
    The UK has very low levels of hospital beds and the lowest levels of both CT and MRI scanners: it has fewer beds per person than 16 of the 18 other countries.
    "

    And when you're dying good luck getting a bed.
    Well, you can move to the U.S where we have "The best healthcare system in the world" if you can afford it. One major illness and unless you have a platinum insurance plan you are in debt for the rest of your life. As I recall when I did my income taxes last year my total out of pocket medical expenses for the year was around $25,000 and that's with a super great insurance plan.

    Now what were you complaining about?
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  10. #89
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobH View Post
    Couldn't say but does it really matter as either way they should be isolated in a Covid 19 ward?

    Bob
    My understanding is "Yes it does matter" especially for the hospital's bottom line, which was the convo you were having. At least it makes a difference here, not sure about your side of the border.

    As to care, I guess that is changing as we speak at least here in the US, some states are calling back Medicos early if they are asymptomatic and can work.. They are being asked to work the covid wards. I am not sure I agree with that, but it is something new and I don't have much info on it
    "No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
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  11. #90
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Quote Originally Posted by gssixgun View Post
    My understanding is "Yes it does matter" especially for the hospital's bottom line, which was the convo you were having. At least it makes a difference here, not sure about your side of the border.

    As to care, I guess that is changing as we speak at least here in the US, some states are calling back Medicos early if they are asymptomatic and can work.. They are being asked to work the covid wards. I am not sure I agree with that, but it is something new and I don't have much info on it
    No, the hospitals here are not run looking to make a profit. I was simply saying that hospitals are running out of beds in Covid 19 wards and ICUs no matter the country you are in regardless of how the hospitals are run.funded.

    Yes, in a lot of countries hospitals are so sort of qualified staff to handle patients that they are shortening quarantine periods and allowing asymptomatic staff to work with some kind of rapid testing routine. I know for sure that in both Canada and the US military medical personnel have been asked to help plug the gaps in staffing at hospitals. All in an effort to prevent the collapse of the system. In Canada the RCAF has been tasked to fly critically ill Covid 19 patients to other provinces when there is no space for them or ventilators in their home province ICUs. We have even had out of province critically ill patients in our ICU locally in the past. It may come to that again shortly.

    Very similar problems but in two very different health care systems. Like I said, I doubt any medical care system was designed to handle a pandemic like Covid 19 has been. They are all falling short.

    Bob
    Life is a terminal illness in the end

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