What do you believe in?

We are on earth though and the bible was dictated by God and given to us. Therefore we believe it is true. We can also apply logic and the book still stands. The book of Genesis also gives a yard stick to measure a "day", and a little logical progression makes it stand out. Read Gen 1:14. Therefore every day stands up to the same yard stick as the same verbage (for each day) was used in the account of creation. It may be that each day (and night) was longer (than we are used to), this we do not know (yet). It surely was different before Adam ate the apple with Eve.

Jeff

What a great discussion about creation and 'days'. I do understand that a heavenly day can be one thousand earthly days (I think there's a reference somewhere :-).

I also like Bruno's post, but I always like Bruno's posts. There's a LOT we don't know. I'm happy to NOT know a lot. I'm happy to accept some 'givens'. That is, the Bible is essentially the Word of God. At a party the other night I made reference to the Australian movie 'The Castle' when talking about this. My son said "wait, did you just refer to The Castle when making reference to the Bible?" In The Castle, a lawyer is talking about the meaning (crux) behind a law. He says "it's the VIBE of the thing". My belief is like that. All I need is 'the vibe'. All I NEED to know is that God made the world (in ref to creation). I DON'T 'water that down' and say he 'allowed' evolution to happen. I accept MADE. I accept 6 days. But I don't get 'anal' about it. If I go to heaven and he says "Hey, Carl, I didn't do it in six days, it took like millions" I'm like, "OK, cool". However, I do feel that if God wants to make the evidence LOOK like it took a billion years, could he not do that? After all, are we not talking about God (the One God). If all the evidence was there (and none to the contrary) wouldn't that do away with faith and just make the whole thing a think of learning and logic? where would we be if walking on water was just a learned skill? That'd make the 'ye of little faith' comet rather redundant. as I sort of understood Bruno top say, sometimes the evidence doesn't stack up. Parallel lines don't join up in MY mind. A train going at the speed of light doesn't get longer in MY mind. I wonder if they'll find the Higgs Boson?

I am a deep thinker. Maybe a loopy deep thinker, but a deep thinker. I REFUSE to believe all my thoughts and all my ME, my I as Martin Buber puts it, are just random results of an evolutionary process. I FEEL I know what good is. I don't feel it's just game theory. I don't think it's just me playing the odds, getting what I want, being nice so I get a leg of dinosaur to eat. If that was the way I'd have joined a bikie gang decades ago and raped and pillaged my happy way through life, instead of being boring old Carl who worries if I'm good enough and asks forgiveness quite very very often...

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

However, I do feel that if God wants to make the evidence LOOK like it took a billion years, could he not do that?

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He surely could. In fact, he could have created everything just now and given us all false memories that make it look as if we've been having this discussion for some time. That argument is one that noone can win or provide meaningful arguments about.

Given that the laws of the universe were undeniably created by God (if we accept his existence), they are the only fingerprint of his work that we can actually inspect. That is why I tend to lend credibility to it. Where we have access to those laws, I think they outweigh words that have been translated and transcribed and edited multiple times. Especially regarding the OT (which imo it is not to be taken as a literal account of things).

I don't believe eve was made from adam's rib and then bit into an apple. I think a lot in the OT is meant metaphorically, not literally. For one thing, when Kain slew abel, he was afraid of what 'the people' would do to him. Not 'his mom and dad'. That implies that there were other people around which were not his family. And biologically, we can't have come from 1 single set of parents. Not without an extreme amount of inbreeding (which means incest in this case) in the first couple of generations.

That doesn't mean that the moral lessons are lessened. It just means that I don't think it happened literally like that. And honestly, I don't think it matter whether you believe it did. We still believe in the same God. We just disagree on what he did or how he did it.

As a sidenote, nowhere in the scriptures is an apple mentioned as the fruit from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.....it's simply mentioned as fruit.

(It's not very important but it always bothers me when people talk about it as if it were an apple...maybe because I quite like apples...who knows?)

Genesis 3:

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6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for afood, and that it was bpleasant to the eyes, and a tree cto be desired to make one wise, she took of the dfruit thereof, and did eeat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did feat.

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Also, I do not believe God planted "false hints".....

My Heavenly Father is not a deciever.....There is a fallen one with that role.

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Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

As a sidenote, nowhere in the scriptures is an apple mentioned as the fruit from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.....it's simply mentioned as fruit.

(It's not very important but it always bothers me when people talk about it as if it were an apple...maybe because I quite like apples...who knows?)

Genesis 3:


Also, I do not believe God planted "false hints".....

My Heavenly Father is not a deciever.....There is a fallen one with that role.

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Just as an interesting side note, while in Bahrain I went to see the "Tree of Life". Many Bahraini believe this is the real Tree of Life from the garden of Eden. It's a huge tree in the middle of the desert. Kind of cool.

Nice tree, but I don't see the angel with the flaming sword protecting it :tameshigiri:
Interesting posts and is still being civil on a topic that can get hot quickly. :nono:
But to the op, I do believe in the Christian God and the further I squeeze the scripture, and the more I look into it, the more truth I find. I believe that Jesus has the power to change lives - as he has changed mine (no need for a several page testimony (available upon request, Rev. 12:11)).

However, I thank the Lord for my razors and that I am not tempted by brush addictions, cologne addictions, and the such. And, that he has given me power over my temptations to own LOTS of razors - not that there is anything wrong with that, unless it becomes an idol (for those who subscribe to faiths that forbid idols). Great discussion fellows and great job in keeping it cool. While proselytizing straight razor shavers is, of course, encouraged here, looking for converts to your faith might get people upset. PM instead!

Shave in good health y'all. :nj

That's definitely an impressive tree. Its roots must go deep indeed, if it can find water.

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Originally Posted by kasperitis

Born and raised Christian.

I would like to point out a bit of lacking in your poll, however it is understandable. I would differentiate Catholicism and from other denominations of Christianity. For those raised non-Catholic Christians who've been to Catholic sermons/ceremonies, it's almost like a completely different religion.

Just an observation from a layman.

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What about Episcopalians? is that Catholic lite? Actually all Christian religions originate from the Catholic religon. The thenets of Christianity are in all of the. the dogma is jus a bit older and established in the Catholic Church. Note: I am not Catholic. I just read alot.

Nothing towards cathlics ( i live in a house full of them ) but cathlics are christians on a tigher lease so to speak they are the oldest form of christians and they have alot more guidlines and ways of doing things than say a baptist (just using that as a referance) cathlics seem to be way harder on non religious people like myself but i must say in defence of them Im openly athiest around most of my family ( my great grandparents would be understanding but i havent had the heart to bring it up ever) and they still love me for who i am and what i do not what i believe.


And i must say they know how to have a good feast for xmas i look foward to going up and seeign the entire family and eating a non stop meal .

Christians are christians, no matter what clothes you dress them up in IMO. The poll seems quite broad in that respect, and I don't think it serves any purpose drawing comparisons between sub-branches of the same bank.

James.