Taxes?

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Originally Posted by jockeys

If people can abuse a system, they will, that is one thing I have learned in life. If the system has to go wrong in one direction, I'd rather it let people get away with success than get away with subsidized failure.

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The wealthy abuse the tax system every day, too, only the amount of money they hide/steal/unfairly trade for dwarfs the social programs you're so rabid about ending. One might argue that the more successful people that "get away with it", the more poor people there will be because of the crimes of the wealthy.

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

Because, if the government has to take money away from someone, it would be preferable to take it from someone who had absolutely nothing to do with earning it.

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so that it can be given to/spent on those who had equally nothing to do with earning it?

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Originally Posted by ScottS

The wealthy abuse the tax system every day, too, only the amount of money they hide/steal/unfairly trade for dwarfs the social programs you're so rabid about ending. One might argue that the more successful people that "get away with it", the more poor people there will be because of the crimes of the wealthy.

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I'd still rather reward ambition than laziness, if I have to choose between the two. As an honest person who does well for himself and DOESN'T cheat on taxes, I don't enjoy being unfairly punished for my success.

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Originally Posted by jockeys

so that it can be given to/spent on those who had equally nothing to do with earning it?

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Theoretically, the government spends money on things that benefit everyone, for the common good.

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

Theoretically, the government spends money on things that benefit everyone, for the common good.

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Hey, now there's a commonist idea! Somehow I doubt the government knows how to benefit everyone though :( To take it to the extreme, why not just do away with currency completely and let the government proportion all the necessary resources to those who need it?

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

Theoretically, the government spends money on things that benefit everyone, for the common good.

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hah! maybe in Italy. Here in the states, tax money gets spent on lobbyists, special interest groups, and pork contracts to friends of politicians.

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Originally Posted by jockeys

I'd still rather reward ambition than laziness, if I have to choose between the two. As an honest person who does well for himself and DOESN'T cheat on taxes, I don't enjoy being unfairly punished for my success.

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Well, again, I'm going to step up and say "you say punish, I say contribute". You see that woman as lazy, I see someone who has been let down by society, sees no hope and no way out, and is trying to survive however she knows how. I know, I know, we've had this argument before and neither of us are going to change the other's mind. :)

But anyway, back on topic. We had an argument over here about the impact of a goods and services tax (GST) which I think is similar to the Federal sales tax? Over here, an item costs say 100 dollars. We have 10% GST, so $10 is charged in tax. To a person earning 100K a year, that's 0.01% of their income. To a person earning 30K a year, it's 0.033% of their income.

James.

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Originally Posted by jockeys

hah! maybe in Italy. Here in the states, tax money gets spent on lobbyists, special interest groups, and pork contracts to friends of politicians.

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Ah, you're talking about how taxes are spent ... I thought the discussion was about how they should be collected.

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

Theoretically, the government spends money on things that benefit everyone, for the common good.

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Originally Posted by jockeys

hah! maybe in Italy. Here in the states, tax money gets spent on lobbyists, special interest groups, and pork contracts to friends of politicians.

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

Ah, you're talking about how taxes are spent ... I thought the discussion was about how they should be collected.

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Looks like you are both talking about how it is spent.:cool: I don't mind, it's good stuff.:)

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Well, again, I'm going to step up and say "you say punish, I say contribute".
James.

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If it was voluntary, I would agree. But it's not. If we were talking labor instead of capital, involutary would equal slavery. But, agree to disagree.