Credit crisis

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

What this has to do with the subject at hand is simply this: the so-called "credit crisis" is one facet of the fact that 20% of the world's population controls 80% of the world's wealth and 1% of the population controls about 50% of the world's wealth. The so-called "free market" is not free, but controlled and manipulated by powerful, but invisible forces. The banks are organized and are exploiting common people. The only way to counter them is for people to act together in their common interest. The idea that we are all responsible for ourselves is promoted by the powerful to protect themselves. Those of you who want to cry "conspiracy theory" need only ask yourselves who is getting bailed-out in this "crisis" and who is getting the shaft and why it is that your so-called "elected officials" are going along with it.

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If these forces are invisible, how do you see them? Do you have special glasses that allow you to see past the responsibilities and obligations of the common man and the importance of him living up to these responsibilities and obligations that he walked into with his eyes wide open?

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Originally Posted by JMS

If these forces are invisible, how do you see them? Do you have special glasses that allow you to see past the responsibilities and obligations of the common man and the importance of him living up to these responsibilities and obligations that he walked into with his eyes wide open?

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Like all invisible forces, such as the wind, you see them by their effects. In this specific case, the bankers committed fraud and they are being bailed out instead of going to jail. The average American taxpayer who lived up to his responsibilities is paying the bill even though he didn't do anything wrong and common people who got sick or lost a job (which are the causes of most home foreclosures) are out on the street.

Its a matter of time before this thread gets closed..... :rolleyes:

So far so good. :)
I see no reason to close this thread. And as long as people keep civil like they are doing now, it can go on for 500 posts for all I care.

Well, it looks like Wamu folded last night. Hope my checkbook still works.

I thought another strong and reliable investment firm bought WaMu?

By the way, the $700 billion is to come from our own printers. Don't expect China to keep lending to US banks

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I thought another strong and reliable investment firm bought WaMu?

By the way, the $700 billion is to come from our own printers. Don't expect China to keep lending to US banks

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JP Morgan bought it after FDIC seized it. for about 1/40th of it's value 6 months ago.

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

Like all invisible forces, such as the wind, you see them by their effects. In this specific case, the bankers committed fraud and they are being bailed out instead of going to jail. The average American taxpayer who lived up to his responsibilities is paying the bill even though he didn't do anything wrong and common people who got sick or lost a job (which are the causes of most home foreclosures) are out on the street.

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The issues with the credit markets can largly be broken down into 3 areas.
1) Greed - it generated fraud from both the banking aspect AND the borrowing aspect. There were banks red lining borrowers into higher rate ARM programs and steering them into something they could not afford because it made them more commission! The opposite is also true. There were borrowers defrauding banks with straw buyers, inflated appraisals, house flipping and buying every home as a primary residence. There was even a company on the internet advertizing "novelty" income documents. These were largly used to show you made more income then you did.

2) Greed - from the selling and servicing end. The banks like AMC, Novastar, Loan giant et al figured there would always be another sucker (bank) financing the home later. The market crashed and the "suckers" dried up. Once the home was off their books it wasn't their problem anymore.

3) Morals (or lack thereof) - people often would ask me to qualify them for homes more than they could afford and I wouldn't do it. Others would. There were programs 2 yrs ago that if you had 700 credit and could come up with 5% to put down (from non-verified sources even; drug money or whatever) you could buy a home with no verification of employment or income or assets. It was the good old credit score and pulse loan. Just because you can does not mean you SHOULD people need to learn this and see point 2.

Great post. Everything I have read has me believing that the Democrats, Repulicans, and Banks, over the last 12 to 16 years, all had a hand in creating the perfect storm that we see as the credit crisis today. The most culpable in my eyes out of those three is the banks and the people borrowing from them. The large investment banks misrepresented the bad securities to the global and domestic markets, the small banks acted, in some cases, without morals, the borrowers were scamming, idiotic, or, unfortunately, just plain bad decision makers who thought they had a chance (edit) and luck ran out or circumstances changed. Merry christmas to anyone under 65. :rant:

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Originally Posted by AaronX

The issues with the credit markets can largly be broken down into 3 areas.
1) Greed - it generated fraud from both the banking aspect AND the borrowing aspect. There were banks red lining borrowers into higher rate ARM programs and steering them into something they could not afford because it made them more commission! The opposite is also true. There were borrowers defrauding banks with straw buyers, inflated appraisals, house flipping and buying every home as a primary residence. There was even a company on the internet advertizing "novelty" income documents. These were largly used to show you made more income then you did.

2) Greed - from the selling and servicing end. The banks like AMC, Novastar, Loan giant et al figured there would always be another sucker (bank) financing the home later. The market crashed and the "suckers" dried up. Once the home was off their books it wasn't their problem anymore.

3) Morals (or lack thereof) - people often would ask me to qualify them for homes more than they could afford and I wouldn't do it. Others would. There were programs 2 yrs ago that if you had 700 credit and could come up with 5% to put down (from non-verified sources even; drug money or whatever) you could buy a home with no verification of employment or income or assets. It was the good old credit score and pulse loan. Just because you can does not mean you SHOULD people need to learn this and see point 2.

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Originally Posted by AaronX

The issues with the credit markets can largly be broken down into 3 areas.
1) Greed - it generated fraud from both the banking aspect AND the borrowing aspect. There were banks red lining borrowers into higher rate ARM programs and steering them into something they could not afford because it made them more commission! The opposite is also true. There were borrowers defrauding banks with straw buyers, inflated appraisals, house flipping and buying every home as a primary residence. There was even a company on the internet advertizing "novelty" income documents. These were largly used to show you made more income then you did.

2) Greed - from the selling and servicing end. The banks like AMC, Novastar, Loan giant et al figured there would always be another sucker (bank) financing the home later. The market crashed and the "suckers" dried up. Once the home was off their books it wasn't their problem anymore.

3) Morals (or lack thereof) - people often would ask me to qualify them for homes more than they could afford and I wouldn't do it. Others would. There were programs 2 yrs ago that if you had 700 credit and could come up with 5% to put down (from non-verified sources even; drug money or whatever) you could buy a home with no verification of employment or income or assets. It was the good old credit score and pulse loan. Just because you can does not mean you SHOULD people need to learn this and see point 2.

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Glad to hear it from someone who knows Aaron!