Something interesting to ponder on Palin...

My wife brought up an interesting thought topic I hadn't considered about Palin.

Do you think Palin would have been chosen as a VP Candidate if she were a he instead?


I am not so sure she would have been picked my self but it is hard to support that in my mind since I don't know what McCain and his advisors knew about her before he made his choice. It seems as though she has been a liability to his campaign (less so than the economy as of late).

I would like everyone to try and stick to supporting their position rather than straight bashing or supporting Palin (the two may intersect and that is fine, but support your opinion first and foremost please!)

So then:

What say you?

It seems to me the only reason Palin could possibly have been selected as VP is because she is an attractive woman. If that is accurate, she wouldn't have been considered if she were a he, or even a homely she. It seems apparent that McCain selected Palin without ever having spoken with her. She gets stumped by any question, regardless of the complexity. He must have just picked her from a catalog.

I think Palin was chosen for what I call the "vagina vote". McCain saw an opportunity after Clinton lost the primary to bring a lot of women to his side, and I think it was a bit chauvanistic. I surmise that he thought women would follow a woman simply because of the genitals, not realizing that they vote sex as well as issues. He shoots, he misses.

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Originally Posted by sicboater

Do you think Palin would have been chosen as a VP Candidate if she were a he instead?

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Oh man, probably not.

Sometimes I also wonder if the polls would be any different (or if the primaries would have produced different results) if McCain were black and Obama were white :eek:

Certainly not. She was brought on board in a feeble attempt to attract Clinton voters.

While we're on Palin, does anyone have any thoughts on her refusal to label abortion clinic bombers as domestic terrorists??

If Palin were a male, her extreme right stances (abstinence only teachings, zero abortions, creationsism only in schools, etc.) would not have been tolerated either by the moderate Republicans, or by the general voting public. I believe she was given special lee-way entirely because she's a woman.

Mark

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Originally Posted by maplemaker

I surmise that he thought women would follow a woman simply because of the genitals, not realizing that they vote sex as well as issues. He shoots, he misses.

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For some reason, this kind of thing reminds me of a Chris Rock joke: "No one hates a white woman more than other white women.".

Chris L

He didn't choose her. He never met her before.
I think it is safe to say that she was chosen for him by the party leadership.
And no, she wouldn't have been chose if she were a he. She'd be another Dick Cheny, but without the benefit of the old boys network and the military affiliations.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

He didn't choose her. He never met her before.

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Just to set the record straight - according to this article by a reporter who interviewed some of McCain's aides, McCain did meet Palin before offering her the VP slot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/ma...1&ref=politics

Here is a quote from page 7:

"... The next morning was Thursday, Aug. 28. Salter and Schmidt drove Palin to McCain’s ranch. According to Salter, the senator took the governor down to a place where he usually had his coffee, beside a creek and a sycamore tree, where a rare breed of hawk seasonally nested. They spoke for more than an hour. Then the two of them walked about 40 yards to the deck of the cabin where the McCains slept. Cindy joined them there for about 15 minutes, after which the McCains excused themselves and went for a brief stroll to discuss the matter. When they returned, McCain asked for some time with Schmidt and Salter. “And we did our pros and cons on all of them,” Salter told me. “He just listened. Asked a couple of questions. Then said, ‘I’m going to offer it to her.’ ” "

I think McCain picked Palin to placate his "base". He probably felt that he could deliver the middle of the road voters and Palin the right-wingers. Things do not seem to be working out for him. :)

Lou

Ok he didn't meet her before his campaign, and they only met because she was to be his VP.
They talked for an hour, which means he offered the slot to someone he didn't know before that day, and knew for only an hour.

Initially I thought his choice was a great move and would gain him a lot.
But as the dirt start floating to the top, imo she became more of a liablity.
By now I think he made a fatal mistake with Palin.

let's stay on topic please! I really want to hear from as many folks as possible! :rock:

It's hard for me to say, I can see it either way. I would have to say no. We all know watch the consequences of such a surprise pick, but if she was a man, there wouldn't be a lot of the excitement she was generating before she was a VP candidate. For example there wouldn't be the abortion part, most people wouldn't make much from the hunting - it'd be just some feisty but extremely local-minded governor who would just be undermining the experience message.
The traditional picks look much better in comparison to that.

I thought the NYT article was interesting. I'm sure McCain had thought quite a bit about her even if he hadn't spoken with her before that one hour conversation - he knew what he's getting, or he should've.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Ok he didn't meet her before his campaign, and they only met because she was to be his VP.
They talked for an hour, which means he offered the slot to someone he didn't know before that day, and knew for only an hour.

Initially I thought his choice was a great move and would gain him a lot.
But as the dirt start floating to the top, imo she became more of a liablity.
By now I think he made a fatal mistake with Palin.

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First, to answer the question...if she were a he, I doubt if she, or rather, he would have been chosen. However, I have to agree with Bruno, at first I thought this was a very smart move on McCain's part, but it seems less convincing here lately.

On the other hand...for all the praise that Obama has been given from the press and the rest of the world, I can't see why this is such a close race. Here we have a crotchety old man and his moronic female sidekick facing off against a man who is supposed to be the answer to our every wish. I mean, if Obama were as wonderful as he was supposed to be according to all these polls, wouldn't he be able to proverbially sell ice water to Eskimos? For all of the talk and all of the political opinions out there, I still say that both candidates fall way short of what our country has to offer.

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Originally Posted by iron maiden

First, to answer the question...if she were a he, I doubt if she, or rather, he would have been chosen. However, I have to agree with Bruno, at first I thought this was a very smart move on McCain's part, but it seems less convincing here lately.

For all of the talk and all of the political opinions out there, I still say that both candidates fall way short of what our country has to offer.

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Amen. It is not the candidates or their platforms, nor the issues that are making this such a tight race. I believe it is the rank and file voters who cannot bear to see their idiot lose to the other teams idiot.

Not sure...they chose Quayle...and W.

I thought Palin was picked to:

- lure independents who were looking at Hillary
- make it hard for the Dems to bash her (because he is a woman...but, as it turned out, no one complains when you bash the stupid)
- help the GOP leadership justify those Viagra purchases

The upside, if she were a male, is she probably would not have those bangs! (Where are the damn scissors?) and the GOP could have saved some $$$ on makeovers and wardrobe.

:rofl2:

No, she is grossly under qualified, has extremist positions, no man as under qualified as her would ever have been chosen. Compared to Palin, Quayle and Bush are intellectual giants.

On that same note Larry King had Christopher Hitchens on tonight and he a few things to say about Palin.

I would have loved to read what Wm. F. Buckley would have said.....:eek:

I normally don't get too wrapped up in the political threads because, after all, I'm no expert and I like you guys...but I did notice Nun2Sharp's signature about the gov't and it reminded me of a quote by Gerald Ford...a man who, by most accounts, had to remember really hard to breathe...

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take everything away." -Gerald Ford

Whomever I vote for, and this has been a tough decision, I'm sure will not be either as bad or as good as they were supposed to be...anyway, regardless of who wins, I'm sure there is a much better person out there who could have done the job...but I'll give the new president a chance because I think our country needs to stand together.

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Originally Posted by iron maiden

...but I'll give the new president a chance because I think our country needs to stand together.

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Dave,

I realize this is an off topic comment on an off topic post but I am curious about this comment. What do you mean that you'll "give the new president a chance"? If you didn't want to give him "a chance", what options are available to you?

Brad

I am afraid mcCain's error of judgement was that women usually do not like women that are better looking than they are themselves.

I don't think she would have been considered for vp if she were a man. This nomination seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to the fact that Hilary didn't get the nod. If it were Governor "Samuel" Palin instead, the vetting process would have been more thorough and most likely removed from the list.

I suppose when mcCain laid eyes on her he forgot the vetting procedure and could not help himself saying: "I want her".

I don't know. McCain has what Lincoln used to refer to as "the presidential bug." I don't think he'd take the pick lightly. And say what you like, he's not stupid.

More likely, I think, is the fact that this campaign has been a "news-cycle" effort. Rather than adopting a long-term, coherent strategy, as Obama has, they've simply tried to fight every news cycle. Each day, in other words, is a whole new campaign, fighting for the five o'clock news. I think they just figured that Palin would take the news cycles, at least for the day, and once the effect wore off, they'd think of something else.

j

Well they did get her in the news but mostly in a way that deters voters!

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Originally Posted by Kees

Well they did get her in the news but mostly in a way that deters voters!

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Yeah, for sure. Do you think maybe they're regretting this?

Palin's 'going rogue,' McCain aide says - CNN.com

Psychologist friend is saying that she's showing signs of being sociopathic.

j

If she were a he...?
Absolutely would not have been selected.
Does not have the appropriate experience.
Does not have the understanding of the issues.
Does not have the political network (and this may be the real problem).
Experience that she does have is dubious.
Does not have the personal persence.
Does not have the knowledge of world situation.
Does not cut it on any level that you would consider for a VP.

I saw her on TV the other day saying she knew the solution to the current economic crisis: "Drill more oil". Apparently she does not know it takes a couple of years before you can actually pump up the oil after you started drilling. And the more oil you drill the cheaper it gets so you need to drill even more.

When she is speaking to the crowds it sounds to me she is merely quoting from some conservative religious manifesto without the added value of insight or own ideas.

Crudely put she is as thick as moose **** in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by icedog

Dave,

I realize this is an off topic comment on an off topic post but I am curious about this comment. What do you mean that you'll "give the new president a chance"? If you didn't want to give him "a chance", what options are available to you?

Brad

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Brad, what I meant was that I'd give the next president a chance to do their job without interruption from lowly citizens such as myself. Regardless of whether it is Obama or McCain, the next president has a tough job ahead of them, and I think I should support the next candidate as an American should support their leaders. Basically, I will hope for the best when it comes to the next president, as I'm sure we all would. As I have said before, neither candidate impresses me very much, but whoever gets elected, I'll probably just shut up....at least for a while, and let them do their job.

As far as other choices? I suppose I could move to Montana and create my own sovereign of Stay the Hell Out!!!:medvl:

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Originally Posted by Kees

I suppose when mcCain laid eyes on her he forgot the vetting procedure and could not help himself saying: "I want her".

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I think it has more to do with McCain taking campaign advice from the last person he talks to. His campaign actually took away his cell phone because of such problems.

Just read in the paper today (having breakfast in a tavern with the wife, kids were away :y) that McCain's campaign was falling apart at the seams. Palin was named as the number 1 cause for the following reasons
- she is going rogue
- she is an extremist
- she is ignorant and dense (some of the things she's said... :gaah:)
- she had a number of skeletons falling out of her closet during the campaign
- she does not understand the electorate, judging by the fact that she spent 150000 euros on clothes, and her makeup assistant ears 9000 euros per week...

There were other factors mentioned for the McCain campaign problems (his initial cozying up to Bush, chaotic campaign planning, the Obama bashing) but Palin seems to be his biggest detractor.