... and the Pursuit of Happiness

Since the dawn of time humanity has been hounded by and sought an answer to the age old question, "why are we here". Cultures the world over have come up with answer after answer, but how is one to know, to truly know whether the traditional response is right or not. We are usually instructed, usually indoctrinated at a young age not to question the answer we are given, but to live it and we are told that through such action we will see that the answer is true. Buddhists for example (and other's I am sure) contend that the reason we are here on Earth is to seek, find or create happiness. The Dalai Lama adds rhetorically, "What other reason could there be"? It is a wise answer and just the sort that a pupil could follow blindly believing he is fulfilling his Earthly purpose.

Researchers from The University of British Columbia and Harvard have discovered that happiness does not necessarily reside where you think it does. Apparently, making your self happy doesn't work nearly as well as simply helping others. I recently saw a program (on the CBC I think it was, but can't recall the details) where they took five individuals and got them to fulfill both parts of the study. They tested them for stamina and brain stimulus before the study, then again after instructing them to go and do something nice for themselves, and then again after being instructed to help others. All five subjects showed no improvement after their selfish pampering, but all five also made a marked improvement following their personal act of charity.

Happiness comes, not as a result of making yourself happy, but as a result of being good to others.

X

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Originally Posted by xman

Happiness comes, not as a result of making yourself happy, but as a result of being good to others.

X

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Sounds rather Christian to me X! Better be careful or you might turn into one of us "bitter clingers"!;):D

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Originally Posted by JMS

Sounds rather Christian to me X! Better be careful or you might turn into one of us "bitter clingers"!;):D

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The faithful always try to claim sole possession of our good Humanist values and who could blame 'em? :D

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Originally Posted by xman

The faithful always try to claim sole possession of our good Humanist values and who could blame 'em? :D

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Your not saying that you aren't faithful to your good humanist values are you?;)

Well I don't know. It is a bit chicken or egg in my book. I think true happiness comes from within. And if you are truly happy and content in your own skin, you are more likely to want to help others than if you are miserable and discontented with yourself.

I think if more people were good to themselves (as in treated themselves right), we would see a much happier and healthier society as a whole.

James.

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Originally Posted by JMS

Sounds rather Christian to me X! Better be careful or you might turn into one of us "bitter clingers"!;):D

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Or on the other hand Mark it fits with scientist and outspoken atheist Richard Dawkins' theory of the Selfish Gene. Viz, there's no such thing as altruism -- acts of kindness are only as a result of us expecting a return on them sometime in the future and for getting on a higher rung on the social ladder. All specifically to improve our chances of passing on our genes. If I'm kind and good to others then it's likely to improve my standing within my peers, attract a mate, and pass those genes on.

The book can be accessed here, but strangely the one chapter that really tackles this "Chapter 12: Nice Guys Finish First" is the onyl one disabled from view in Google Books.:thinking:

Disclaimer: I'm not Richard Dawkins. :D

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Originally Posted by xman

Happiness comes, not as a result of making yourself happy, but as a result of being good to others.

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I guess I would argue that doing good to others is a way to make yourself happy...

i think there are a lot more people that believe in Karma then will admit it. i think it is Buddhist that believe that you carry Karma with you from one life to the next, ie you do something bad now your gonna get it in the next life. the theory(please correct me if i'm wrong here) is that in each life you learn certain lesson that your soul carries to the next life, until eventually you become enlightened after having learned all lessons and pass on to the next stage. it was always a really interesting thing to think about. i don't really know if i believe it but just thinking about it that way makes me realize how insignificant some events are and how special others are.

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Originally Posted by xman

Happiness comes, not as a result of making yourself happy, but as a result of being good to others.

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Originally Posted by majurey

Or on the other hand Mark it fits with scientist and outspoken atheist Richard Dawkins' theory of the Selfish Gene. Viz, there's no such thing as altruism -- acts of kindness are only as a result of us expecting a return on them sometime in the future and for getting on a higher rung on the social ladder. All specifically to improve our chances of passing on our genes. If I'm kind and good to others then it's likely to improve my standing within my peers, attract a mate, and pass those genes on.

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All this is nothing new. I completely agree with Dawkins' theory, but it has been around before his 1976 book. The way I think of it is that we are conditioned from birth to realize the positive (to ourselves) things that come out of helping others. When have you ever heard someone say it isn't a well thought of thing to help an old woman cross the street? You haven't. So next time you see an old woman and help her cross the street, you know that it will be a "good deed" in everyone's book, so you do it in fact for yourself. I could go much further into it, but I think you get the point.

In closing, I put no weight on what researchers from UBC and Harvard found in a study regarding intangibles. These things will never have an answer that everyone agrees on. I doubt they'd let Dawkins have a say in their study.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I think if more people were good to themselves (as in treated themselves right), we would see a much happier and healthier society as a whole.

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You may think what you like, but the evidence suggests that you are entirely wrong.

X

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Originally Posted by xman

You may think what you like, but the evidence suggests that you are entirely wrong.

X

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I was good to myself and my family became happier as a whole. This evidence suggests that Jimbo is entirely right. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I was good to myself and my family became happier as a whole. This evidence suggests that Jimbo is entirely right. :shrug:

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As it was not a scientific study, the result or conclusions can be dismissed too easily.

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Originally Posted by xman

As it was not a scientific study, the result or conclusions can be dismissed too easily.

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Still, the unscientific evidence suggests Jimbo is right!

Go Jimbo! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...heerleader.gif

:gaah: :rolleyes:

I don't know about karma but I hope I never get what I deserve. :) A friend of mine was fond of saying,"Do the right thing and the right thing happens". I think happiness is a byproduct of doing the right thing. Whether it be for yourself or for others.

Dr Hans Selye was in the '70s recognized as the foremost expert on stress and it's effects on humans. He wrote a book called The Stress of Life which was recommended by Runner's World magazine to marathoners. The last chapter being the only one meant for layman.

The gist of it was that the way to reduce stress was to do things for others so that when they naturally expressed gratitude both parties were happy and therefore had less stress. :shrug: Sounds right to me.

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Originally Posted by xman

Happiness comes, not as a result of making yourself happy, but as a result of being good to others.
X

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maybe that's only because people are conditioned (usually) to feel guilty when they are selfish. I, for one, have abandoned the conditioning of my younger years and have discovered the joys of good old fashioned selfish hedonism, and will never turn back. Spent most of my formative years doing a lot of charity work and such, 'cause I was told it would make me happy, but it never really did. Selfishness (minus the imposed guilt) has worked out a lot better for me.

Guess I agree with Jimbo here. Everyone's got their own thing, different people find happiness different ways. xman, if you find helping others makes you happy, that's awesome, but it's a little shortsighted to think there aren't exceptions to that rule, scientific studies notwithstanding.

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Dunn put theory into practice recently after her boyfriend gave her six dozen roses to celebrate their anniversary. Dunn in turn tried to give one rose to six dozen people, spreading the happiness windfall far and wide.

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Maybe it made her feel happier, but that little stunt most likely ****ed of the boyfriend who had just pluncked down some hard earned cash for six dozen (!) roses for his girlfriend.

In retribution I suggest that instead of taking her out to a nice resturant for dinner, he "spreads the happyness far and wide" by taking another young lady who was without a date for the evening in her place.;)

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Originally Posted by xman

As it was not a scientific study, the result or conclusions can be dismissed too easily.

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I must say as well that the linked article lacks some credence as well.

They draw the conclusion that helping others makes people happier, which very well may be. But in part of the study, the peope running the study supply the money for the subjects to give to others. Giving away someone else's money is easy,and may lead to false positives ala the cited "spend Oprah's money" citation as well.



I spent my bonus money on shave stuff, and I'm happy as can be.:D

Except now the moneys all gone again...:cry:


If someone wants to feel better and Paypal me some funds, it may very well be a win/win situation! It would also allow us to test the above hypothesis about people spending their own money (i.e.- you fine folk) to help others (i.e.- yours truly):rock:

C'mon guys, for the sake of Science!

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

C'mon guys, for the sake of Science!

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I'm all for it! Everyone pm me for Seraphim's paypal info, and you can send the $ there :)

Well, I am always a bit sceptical of the results of "soft" science findings. 99% of the time they do not even fully understand what it is they are measuring, and consequently most of these survey "studies" lack even the most fundamental levels of control. The best most can do is measure covariates and hold on for the ride. Which is not in and of itself a bad thing, mind you.

Anyway all I mean is that I believe that true happiness comes from within. You being happy with You. I think people happy with themselves will help others as a natural consequence of being happy with themselves. I also think you can probably gain happiness by helping others, by having a nice cuppa tea with your grandmother, patting the dog, or popping an ecstasy tablet (from what I hear). In my mind the question is not what will make you happy. The question is what will *keep* you happy?

Anyway, I did not mean to make anyone unhappy :) . Go out and live long and prosper! :D (and if you still have one, call your grandmother for no reason other than to chat)

James

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Originally Posted by jockeys

maybe that's only because people are conditioned (usually) to feel guilty when they are selfish. I, for one, have abandoned the conditioning of my younger years and have discovered the joys of good old fashioned selfish hedonism, and will never turn back. Spent most of my formative years doing a lot of charity work and such, 'cause I was told it would make me happy, but it never really did. Selfishness (minus the imposed guilt) has worked out a lot better for me.

Guess I agree with Jimbo here. Everyone's got their own thing, different people find happiness different ways. xman, if you find helping others makes you happy, that's awesome, but it's a little shortsighted to think there aren't exceptions to that rule, scientific studies notwithstanding.

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You selfish bastard...no wonder we tend to get along:D

I like helping others, simply because I'm a giving sort of person. However, if I'm not happy, I likely will not go out of my way to help others. This isn't to say that I would ignore someone in dire need (car crash, etc), but I'm not going to go help out at the soup kitchen either. I promise that I feel fantastic after I've bought myself something nice:cool:

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Originally Posted by Quick Orange

I promise that I feel fantastic after I've bought myself something nice:cool:

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most folks underestimate the importance and emotional-healthiness of occasionally being good to yourself. it makes all the difference.

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Originally Posted by JMS

Sounds rather Christian to me X! Better be careful or you might turn into one of us "bitter clingers"!;):D

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Are you suggesting that being good to others is somehow monopolized by those who have sworn some allegiance to Jesus Christ?

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Originally Posted by JMS

Sounds rather Christian to me X! Better be careful or you might turn into one of us "bitter clingers"!;):D

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"To practice five things under all circumstances constitutes perfect virtue; these five are gravity, generosity of soul, sincerity, earnestness, and kindness."

-Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)


If I remember correctly, BC means "before Christ". Christianity has no more claim to originating morality and kindness towards others than do the Chinese.

Eh, let's maybe not bring religion into this (Mark!) as we all know I'd have to get involved and bring up the Egyptian god Horus (aka Jesus)...

But yeah, Russel brings up a great point.

Don't let's get our nickers in a knot. Mark and I have a relationship and he's just poking a bit of fun at me. I KNOW it wasn't meant in earnest and he knows I don't take it that way. Nobody else should either. ... But yeah, we shouldn't beat that mythical horse anyhow.

X

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Originally Posted by xman

Don't let's get our nickers in a knot. Mark and I have a relationship and he's just poking a bit of fun at me. I KNOW it wasn't meant in earnest and he knows I don't take it that way. Nobody else should either. ... But yeah, we shouldn't beat that mythical horse anyhow.

X

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And I was just about to set them straight X! You took all my fun away!;):D

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Originally Posted by JMS

And I was just about to set them straight X! You took all my fun away!;):D

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The pleasure was all mine. :D

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Originally Posted by xman

The pleasure was all mine. :D

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:roflmao:roflmao I thought it might be!