Stem cell research...

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

By that same argument, then not every life must be saved? (i.e.-why bother with stem cell research to save lives in the first place?)




And I'll come to reason #2 why I'm against stem cell research- scientists more often than not really don't know what they are doing.

Genetically modified foods. Sure, they may grow great under adverse weather conditions, and be pest resistant. But are they still digestable? Have you noticed that there are alot more food allergies now then 20-30 years ago?

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So really your not against stem cell research, you're just against science in general.

Might there not be more food allergies because science has become better at diagnosing them? I guess things were better in the dark ages when people were lucky if they lived passed birth (and dinosaurs roamed the earth). Considering corn is probably the largest GMO, I haven't seen or heard of a spike in corn allergies.

I love the juxtaposition that scientist don't know what they are doing while making this argument on a computer on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

In Holocast concentration camps they did all sorts of medical experiments.

Those folks were doomed to die regardless. So, is it ethical to make use of the medical information derived from those experiments, even given the circumstances surrounding how the information was obtained?

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Information itself has no moral province, and should be used for the good of all. How it was gotten.... well hell is too good for those who pursued that means of investigation

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Originally Posted by Hutch

Might there not be more food allergies because science has become better at diagnosing them? I guess things were better in the dark ages when people were lucky if they lived passed birth (and dinosaurs roamed the earth). Considering corn is probably the largest GMO, I haven't seen or heard of a spike in corn allergies.

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Well, then you haven't been paying much attention. All Gluten allergies are far more common than they were a generation ago.

There are many many more children being hospitalized for Peanut allergies alone than there were a generation ago. In fact today it is hard to find a grade school that allows peanuts in the building for the very legitimate fear that someone will die, compare that to to a generation ago when every grade served peanut butter every day to every kid.

The discussion at hand is about the ethics of killing a fertilized embryo for research purposes that so far have produced NO medical miracles. Especially when compared to the, in many ways parallel, field of research in adult stem cells that have produced the medical advances.

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

Information itself has no moral province, and should be used for the good of all. How it was gotten.... well hell is too good for those who pursued that means of investigation



Well, then you haven't been paying much attention. All Gluten allergies are far more common than they were a generation ago.

There are many many more children being hospitalized for Peanut allergies alone than there were a generation ago. In fact today it is hard to find a grade school that allows peanuts in the building for the very legitimate fear that someone will die, compare that to to a generation ago when every grade served peanut butter every day to every kid.

The discussion at hand is about the ethics of killing a fertilized embryo for research purposes that so far have produced NO medical miracles. Especially when compared to the, in many ways parallel, field of research in adult stem cells that have produced the medical advances.

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How can you compare the adult stem cell research and embryonic stem cell research when the hands of the researchers are tied. Of course adult stem cell research is out performing embryonic stem cell research because there is basically very little embryonic stem cell research allowed.

Gluten allergies (not an allergy read below), what does that have to do with GMO corn? Gluten is from wheat based products. Peanut allergies, didn't know there was a big GMO peanut industry. One reason there are more allergies is because of older women having children, another reason there is more is because there is more knowledge about it. In the 70's I went to grade school with three kids that had peanut allergies, back in those days it was still in the time of personal responsibility, those kids didn't eat peanuts, the rest of us did. Last I knew at least two of them are still alive, don't have any contact with the third.

Also the layman's rise in food allergies isn't totally true, its based on the mistaken fact that most food allergies are food intolerances, and unlike an allergy have nothing to do with the immune system and are based upon enzyme deficiencies, of which Gluten is a prime example another is lactose.

This basically is a genetic problem which science could take some of the blame for. Science has allowed these people to survive and pro-create thus adding more damaged genetic pool. The only other thing this might be able to be solved with stem cell research.:thinking:

The growing incidence of peanut allergy in first world countries has led doctors to suspect that humans may be altering their immune systems by eradicating diseases and keeping their environments too clean. The absence of threats in the immune system's natural environment may lead it to do strange things, like develop adverse reactions to ordinary foods. In addition, the heavy use of peanut products in foods may be contributing, as it is hard to avoid exposing young children to peanut products, which are found literally everywhere; oils, most processed foods, skin care products, and in some plastics, to start with.

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Originally Posted by Hutch

How can you compare the adult stem cell research and embryonic stem cell research when the hands of the researchers are tied. Of course adult stem cell research is out performing embryonic stem cell research because there is basically very little embryonic stem cell research allowed.

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In other countries It is allowed and that is where the majority of ALL stem cell research is currently taking place. Not to mention the fact that there is no prohibition on the use of current stem cell lines only on the harvesting of new ones. That means that any current proects are not actually hampered in any way, just unproductive.

Sorry gluten as I understand it is a general term for the protein portion of grain, not just wheat, this is that part that people react to. In any case wheat is modified almost as much as corn.

As to your peanut thing that doesn't hold water either. there are many kids today who have anaphylactic reactions when in the same room as peanut products so, personal responsibility isn't an issue, they can die from "second hand" exposure. These kids didn't exist when I was in school.

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

In other countries It is allowed and that is where the majority of ALL stem cell research is currently taking place. Not to mention the fact that there is no prohibition on the use of current stem cell lines only on the harvesting of new ones. That means that any current proects are not actually hampered in any way, just unproductive.

Sorry gluten as I understand it is a general term for the protein portion of grain, not just wheat, this is that part that people react to. In any case wheat is modified almost as much as corn.

As to your peanut thing that doesn't hold water either. there are many kids today who have anaphylactic reactions when in the same room as peanut products so, personal responsibility isn't an issue, they can die from "second hand" exposure. These kids didn't exist when I was in school.

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So you want to rely on other countries to do your research? Maybe the research that can discover something is in the US, how about that thought? There are very few stem cell lines to work with and they may not be the best quality, and researchers have complained about this.

Gluten intolerance is wheat, I have family member that has celliac disease and corn isn't included.

Kids had anaphylactic reactions back in the 70's, thats not new.

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Originally Posted by Hutch

So really your not against stem cell research, you're just against science in general.

Might there not be more food allergies because science has become better at diagnosing them? I guess things were better in the dark ages when people were lucky if they lived passed birth (and dinosaurs roamed the earth). Considering corn is probably the largest GMO, I haven't seen or heard of a spike in corn allergies.

I love the juxtaposition that scientist don't know what they are doing while making this argument on a computer on the internet.

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I'm cool with science. I build lasers for a living:nj

I believe that you are correct in saying that the correct term may not be allergy, but rather enzyme deficiency.

Now then, that would seem to say that the affected people are deficient in the enzymes necessary to break down the materials in the newly engineered food crops. i.e.-we are designed to process the stuff.

We are straying off topic but I've yet to hear of anyone that has a food intolerence to GM foods, yet can tolerate organically grown varieties of the same food. If this were the case I'm sure that the anti GMO crowd would be heralding this.

Smoking has never been proven to cause cancer. Thus the big companies danced around the issue for ages while raking in the bucks.

Same with GMO food, until harmfulness is proven, they'll just keep churning out the stuff and make $$$.

Do you really think changing the genetic makeup of a food product will have no effect on the person eating it?

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

Smoking has never been proven to cause cancer. Thus the big companies danced around the issue for ages while raking in the bucks.

Same with GMO food, until harmfulness is proven, they'll just keep churning out the stuff and make $$$.

Do you really think changing the genetic makeup of a food product will have no effect on the person eating it?

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We are going off topic, but for me there is more than enough scientific research showing a link between tobacco use and increased incidents of various cancers. For some there will never be enough research, because they discount any research that does not agree with their beliefs, religious or otherwise.

Despite the studies performed on GMO foods by both industry (which I agree could be slanted) and those that oppose GMO foods there has not been any link established between them and any adverse health effects.

They have been basically proven safe at this time, could that change, absolutely, but if we waited to prove everything 100% safe we would never have anything because it's really impossible to prove.

So right now my opinion is that GMO foods are more likely not to cause adverse health effects in the general population. Could there be individuals that have issues, yes its a possibility and deserves research and study.

So we should probably get back to stem cell research or have this GMO food topic spun off, it is an interesting topic.