Abortion: split from stem cell research

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Originally Posted by Ben325e

Can it be banned absolutely? Then who should decide what occurs in instances of rape, incest, etc? I hope that I never have to wear the shoes of that individual.

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Such an individual would have to be convinced of the humanity and individual human rights of the unborn children. How does any previous crime trump an innocent's right to life in a just legal system? Should a single mother struggling just to support herself be allowed to kill her toddler who was produced by a rape or an incest? Are the circumstances surrounding an innocent person more important than the person? I mean, we can't avoid the problem of at what point do the unborn have the right to live. Who or what is it that gives people such rights, and who or what protects them? It all depends on whether or not the unborn children have the same individual human rights as any other child. If that determination can be made, the debate is pretty much over

And yet all the side arguments continue - what if this happens, what if this happens, without first making a determination of the individual humanity of the unborn.

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Originally Posted by Nord Jim

How about this one: People who believe that abortion is wrong have the right to convince the rest of the country of that view, provided they use legal means. People who believe otherwise have the same right.

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Only certain people though, I suspect...

One of the biggest issues here is...
Pushing your will on someone else. you don't want an abortion, cool don't get one. I personally, would never get one, but then again, i can't get pregnant. If i were married and my wife said she wanted an abortion, i'd let her out of the simple fact i wouldn't want her to resent the baby. before you say, "no woman would resent her own child", i've known many children from broken families or their dad is a dead beat and that kid gets crapped on by the mother. that's how i came to the conclusion that my future wife's choice is exactly that, her choice. having said that, i firmly feel abortions shouldn't be used like birth control (repeating myself). keep in mind, forcing your will on others doesn't make you right, it makes you a prick.:rant:

I'm pro-abortion. Probably the worst thing that can happen to a kid is having parents that don't want it. Abortion makes that situation fixable.

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Originally Posted by kljr

One of the biggest issues here is...
Pushing your will on someone else. you don't want an abortion, cool don't get one. I personally, would never get one, but then again, i can't get pregnant. If i were married and my wife said she wanted an abortion, i'd let her out of the simple fact i wouldn't want her to resent the baby. before you say, "no woman would resent her own child", i've known many children from broken families or their dad is a dead beat and that kid gets crapped on by the mother. that's how i came to the conclusion that my future wife's choice is exactly that, her choice. having said that, i firmly feel abortions shouldn't be used like birth control (repeating myself). keep in mind, forcing your will on others doesn't make you right, it makes you a prick.:rant:

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I am fiercly pro-choice. I will point out, though, that the very argument you are using here (forcing your will on another is wrong) is one of the main arguments of the pro-life crowd. that is...the mother is forcing HER will on that of the unborn child (which, in their view, is more than a fetus, or a clump of cells, but an UNBORN HUMAN....with full human rights. I may or may not agree here, but UNDERSTANDING each others argumetns is a neccesary step to a civil discussion, don't you think?)

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Originally Posted by jockeys

I'm pro-abortion. Probably the worst thing that can happen to a kid is having parents that don't want it. Abortion makes that situation fixable.

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Again, please note that I am strongly STRONGLY in favor a right to choose. Might you not admit ( you may not) that being killed (again, many in the the pro-life camp sees the unborn as a human that can be killed. Others, of course see the "potential" life as significant enough/holy/of God to be able to be "killed") is worse than being born in to a possible unloving family?

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Originally Posted by kljr

One of the biggest issues here is...
Pushing your will on someone else....

...i'd let her out of the simple fact i wouldn't want her to resent the baby...

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If you've determined the baby doesn't have human rights yet, then no explanation is needed to justify the abortion. And if certainty of future resent is an acceptable reason for a mother to kill her child then no determination of the human rights of the unborn is necessary anyway

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Originally Posted by jockeys

I'm pro-abortion. Probably the worst thing that can happen to a kid is having parents that don't want it. Abortion makes that situation fixable.

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In that case why not abort the parents instead?

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Originally Posted by smokelaw1

Might you not admit ( you may not) that being killed is worse than being born in to a possible unloving family?

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maybe. maybe not. there's not really a way to objectively evaluate that. I'd rather err on the side of not creating subsequent generations of young criminals.

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

In that case why not abort the parents instead?

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that would be pretty cool, but my polling focus groups tell me I'll never get that legislation to pass, so I'm choosing my battles here. :p

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Originally Posted by jockeys

I'd rather err on the side of not creating subsequent generations of young criminals.

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But... what if they're smooth criminals?

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1...earlier/hk.jpg

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

But... what if they're smooth criminals?

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you mean pedophiles?

I predict that his kids will abort themselves. :gaah:

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Originally Posted by jockeys

you mean pedophiles?

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This pro/anti discussion will become of even greater interest in the not too distant future when the quickly turning pregnant woman will be able to knock 3 or 4 other people off their feet. At some point there will be inevitable checks on our burgeoning population; those checks will be unarguable: disease and famine.

Anyone think we can intelligently delay that inevitability?

:hmmm: