Shaving and Orthodox Judaism story

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Originally Posted by jockeys

guess you're too close to be objective. notice how you say your "children are require to marry Jews" ? sorry to tell you, but the days of arranged marriages and matchmakers are gone, dude. people marry for love now. sometimes for a tax break. and to demand that your children raise their children the way you want them to? how is it anyone's business but theirs how they choose to raise their children.

if your kids decide they're better off as gentiles, will you love them any less? if they decide to raise their children gentile, will you not love your grandkids?

how is it intolerance? well, you are clearly not tolerant of your family making any religious decisions that you don't agree with. how about letting people think for themselves and make their own choices? it's just so terribly offensive to me that anyone would REQUIRE their children to marry for any reason but love.

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My children will be educated and taught that they should seek a Jewish partner to fall in love with and marry.

If they were to not do so I would regard it as my failing not theirs.

We come from an unbroken chain of generation after generation of Jews. I personally hope that we continue that chain. If others wish to break it then so be it.

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

Orthodox Jews are very intolerant of other Jews that date/marry outside the tribe.

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"Intolerant"...that's a very interesting choice of words. I remember back in the day when the dinosaurs were drinking outta our horse trough, and "tolerance" just meant that you didn't go kill people who were different from you. You simply left them alone.

Sadly, nowadays the PC movement has succeeded in morphing "tolerance" to mean you must applaud and approve of any perversion that anyone wants to perpetuate.

Don't get me started on "tolerance!"

But back to what you were saying...

You want to talk "intolerant?" I'll tell you what "intolerant" really is. :rant:
"Intolerant" is:

1. Atheists/agnostics who demand the right to do or say anything they please at any time...yet continue to work to restrict the rights of faithful Jews and Christians to do or say what we want.
2. New Agers who demand the similar universal rights...yet who, according to the writings of Alice Bailey (founder of the New Age movement), are looking forward to a "great purge" (i.e., death) of orthodox Jews and us evangelical, fundamentalist Christians because they can't stand it that we stand up for God and His Word.
3. A tool used to bash those of us who obey God, or G_d as Jews prefer.
4. The radical homosexual group who recently infiltrated a Sunday church service and deliberately disrupted it with lewd acts, words and actions...and then threatened to start burning down our churches.

Yes, orthodox Jews can and do exclude certain other Jews from their company, along with others.
What of it? It's called "freedom of association."

Are YOU friends with everyone in the world? Didn't think so.

IBTL .

I'm enjoying this because all posts are quite respectful.

About Jews spreading the word of God:

In my understanding, Judaism is for Jews. Sincere converts are accepted, but they find Judaism for their own reasons, not because they were evangelized. I don't think that there's a concept of salvation.

Jews make no judgment that people who practice other faiths are somehow damned by not practicing Jewish Law or atoning for some original sin.

On a related matter, I've often wondered about why there are so may Old Testament names in Mexico as opposed to Spain. Even my given name, Joel, is quite common.

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Originally Posted by Englishgent

I am sorry that you family rejected you for marrying out, but what did you expect??

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Understanding? or at least tolerance if not acceptance?

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Originally Posted by Englishgent

A Jewish man is faced with choices from the age of barmitzvah, I am sure that you were taught this as a young man. You made a choice which would clearly cause your family great anguish. That was your decision .

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If his familiy are so horrified at the thought of him marrying an outsider, isn't it they who are the problem? Their small mindedness is the issue. His relationship with a non-jew just made it visible.

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Originally Posted by Englishgent

You have had to live with the consequences of that decision.
Man up, accept that what you did went against the tenants of your familys faith and please stop trying to discredit Jewish people on this forum.

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It may have been against his family's faith, but that does not mean he has to be cast out.
Most religions preach tolerance, at least in theory.
I know the bible does so. But that doesn't make christian fundies any more tolerant of others.
Faith isn't the problem. Bigotry, fundamentalism and extremism are.

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Originally Posted by YesSheDoes!

Sadly, nowadays the PC movement has succeeded in morphing "tolerance" to mean you must applaud and approve of any perversion that anyone wants to perpetuate.

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that is not tolerance. It's just a different form of oppression.
tolerance in this case would have been his family accepting his choice. After all, it's not like he has done something perverse. he married the woman he loved.

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Originally Posted by YesSheDoes!

Are YOU friends with everyone in the world? Didn't think so.

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no. but I will tolerate most people even if I don't agree with them. I don't cast them out.

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Originally Posted by Englishgent

My children will be educated and taught that they should seek a Jewish partner to fall in love with and marry.

If they were to not do so I would regard it as my failing not theirs. \

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The only way it would be a failing is if you consider your people better than the rest of the world.
Btw you cannot teach someone 'falling in love'. You can tell them, but that rarely works.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Understanding? or at least tolerance if not acceptance?



If his familiy are so horrified at the thought of him marrying an outsider, isn't it they who are the problem? Their small mindedness is the issue. His relationship with a non-jew just made it visible.



It may have been against his family's faith, but that does not mean he has to be cast out.
Most religions preach tolerance, at least in theory.
I know the bible does so. But that doesn't make christian fundies any more tolerant of others.
Faith isn't the problem. Bigotry, fundamentalism and extremism are.

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Orthodox Judaism is a religion of absolutes, eating pork is wrong. using electricity on the shabbath or driving a car is wrong. marrying outside the faith is wrong. It is not a faith where you can bend the rules to suit yourself. G-d provided us with his Torah and 613 commandments to obey. That's where it starts and finishes.

As a gentile I wouldn't expect you to understand this, why should you? but Chimensch know that what he did according to Jewish law was wrong.

According to Chimensch his father is an Orthodox Rabbi, reallistically how is an Orthodox rabbi going to react to his son marrying out?? By being heartbroken and distressed beyond words.

Chimensch or any other Jew is free to marry outside the faith, but then they will be denied by their family, not called to read the Torah in an Orthodox synangogue etc etc.

That is how it is plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

The only way it would be a failing is if you consider your people better than the rest of the world.
Btw you cannot teach someone 'falling in love'. You can tell them, but that rarely works.

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I never said anything about our people being better or worse, just that I hope and pray that my Children will marry other Jews.