What is your definition of "spam" versus marketing?

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Originally Posted by YesSheDoes!

"Yes, deal. Since you've studied internet marketing, you must have applied that to the real world and be selling a lot of whatever, right?"

So here's my question for you, Orange--how are your products doing? :w

Mine are selling well. So come to think of it, I don't really care what people call my site, as long as it's profitable and legal! :rock:

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I'm not Orange, he'll has to answer for himself. (edit: I see he already did)
But, in Belgium, we have "TEL SELL", a television show that runs after normal broadcasting hours. It's a show that originates from the US, subtitled in Dutch. The only purpose is to sell inferior products that no one needs in the first place. The intonation of that show is one of droning enthusiasm, full of translucent superlatives. Very much like your website. Marketing specialists have stated that it is made that way, because it works. It sells their products.
I won't deny that I find that unsettling. It makes abuse of the inability that some people have with discerning between fabricated promo talk and reality. That it actually works, only makes it worse. The mere fact that "it makes money' doesn't make something ethically sound.
"Thou shall not lie" said the bible. "Thou shall not exaggerate" and "Thou shall not manipulate the masses", should have been included in that great book, all in my agnostic opinion.

Bart.

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Originally Posted by Bart

"Thou shall not lie" said the bible. "Thou shall not exaggerate" and "Thou shall not manipulate the masses", should have been included in that great book, all in my agnostic opinion.

Bart.

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I believe they are one and the same, but some people will always look for the "loophole" that will legitimize their conduct. BTW, wasnt "the love of money" "the root of all evil"?

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I believe they are one and the same, but some people will always look for the "loophole" that will legitimize their conduct. BTW, wasnt "the love of money" "the root of all evil"?

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It may have been. It certainly is the root of spam. You can't justify a marketing approach measuring solely by return on investment . Spam is HIGHLY successful by that measure. But I'm a bit confused as to what's being debated here. I thought we were arguing what is considered spam and what is not. One thing adding to the confusion is trying to make a distinction between "marketing" and "spam". They're not on the same level. Spam is one form/method of marketing.

Keep the religious discussion down, gentlemen.
This is a thread about advertisment / spam / marketing and such.
If you want to discuss the religious tangent, start a new thread please.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Keep the religious discussion down, gentlemen.
This is a thread about advertisment / spam / marketing and such.
If you want to discuss the religious tangent, start a new thread please.

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Respectfully,

The whole argue on spam and what should be acceptable in marketing comes down to bare ethics.
For many people ethics are interconnected with religion.
It those arguments are ruled out, than I respect that moderator's call, but at the same time, I leave this thread.

Best regards,
Bart.

What is and is not acceptable is strongly related to ethics. True.
The ethical side of the discussion is relevant.

Where those ethics came from is irrelevant to the purpose of discussing how those ethics affect marketing. How ethics and religion are intertwined is a matter of personal belief. And calling out people on their beliefs, and how you think they are inconsistent in your opinion will take this thread right into a discussion that has nothing to do with martketing and everything with a religious debate.

And there is nothing wrong with religious debate. We've had those several times here. But that is not the topic of this thread. Ethics vs religious beliefs is a complicated topic which would warrent is own thread, and if you feel it needs discussing, you are of course free to open one for that purpose.

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Originally Posted by Bart

I won't deny that I find that unsettling. It makes abuse of the inability that some people have with discerning between fabricated promo talk and reality. That it actually works, only makes it worse.
Bart.

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You are wrong about people, here. I am a student of the human animal, and I've found that most folks CAN see thru the marketing drivel.

They just don't care. They WANT to buy crap. They want it because it's cheaper, gaudier and apparently that's what folks go for nowadays. Marketing to the Lowest Common Denominator is usually the best ROI. That's because the LCD is by far the largest market demographic. MOST people are drooling morons, evidently. So marketing to the drooling moron demographic is usually a profitable tactic. The goal of any business is to make money; as much as possible with the least amount of effort.

In closing, I'll add that Britney Spears sells more albums that Mozart. What does that tell you?

I agree with Jockeys.

A couple of years ago, a new brand of powertools was introduced in Belgium: 'Power Plus'.
These are absolute ****e. They are the most worthless tools ever made. Ther is so much wrong and bad about them that I don't even feel like compiling a list with issues. Everything sucks about them...

Except the price.
you can have a pneumatic power drill for concrete for 40 euros. And it'll drill through stone, and -if you're lucky- concrete.
Of course that is until the 30th hole, by which time the drill locking mechanism and the transmission have worn so much they literally fall apart. A former cheapskate colleague of mine told me that the balls from the bearings fell out of the drill one by one. :roflmao
And of course, that is assuming that by then you haven't accidentally hit some rebar on the way down, because that'll jam the mechanically unprotected motor and instantly fry it for good.

The aforementioned former colleagues (plural. very sad) simply shrug it off, return it under warranty, and get a new one. That's right. For the price of one such abomination, they can hand out 3 (on average, before people are either done or give up) and still make a profit.

I, on the other hand, bought a Bosch Pro drill (the blue series) for 300 euros.
I used it a lot, I drilled through 40 cm of reinforced concrete (foot and a half?), hit rebar, shaved pieces off rebar with it if I hit the rebar just on the side,...
And it still works as well as the day I bought it. It's a joy to use.

And my colleagues thought I was the stupid one for spending so much on a power tool.
So yeah, people generally don't care enough look further than the sale price, and power plus is the prime example that the lowest common denominator is a very profitable market if all you want to do is to sell crap.
The colleagues I mentioned were engineers (one had a phd) so it's not like they couldn't understand the issues, or that the price is too good to be true. They just didn't care.

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Originally Posted by jockeys

In closing, I'll add that Britney Spears sells more albums that Mozart. What does that tell you?

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That people prefer bitches with rasping voices to dead guys with whigs? :roflmao

As mentioned, every forum has the right to set their own rules. It is not a constitution from any country, they can be opinionated. If you want to be a part of a forum you must abide by it's rules.

The air about this forum is helping each other, a gentleman's or ladies place to visit.

This thread seems to encourage the opposite. It tends to be in your face and bring out the worst in some people.

Rick