Shall the criminally insane be put down like a dog with rabies?

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

"occlusion of the proximal aorta" - Stops the beating heart from pumping blood to the rest of the body Then they stop life support and start removing the vital organs.

Do you need a video to prove it? *

Just to clarify I do support transplantation. But I strongly object to the misleading information that is fed to the public to persuade them to sign up as donors.

You have accepted that "brain death" is essentially the same as "death." Is incurable insanity really that different? I'm not seriously proposing it, just making a comparison.

(*) Not a graphic video of the moment, but if you go to 09:25 in the following documentary video, the surgeon describes when and how they stop the heart by placing ice on it:
YouTube - Heart Transplant Procedure From Montefiore-Einstein, NYC

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Where did the term "incurable insanity" come from? How is that defined? Many, I would suggest most, of the criminally insane can be managed with medication. The problem is when they go off their meds. That's why they need to remain institutionalized. You're also not acknowledging the fact that another person gains life through the organ donation. It's not just the ending of one. We're drifting into euthanasia here?....:w

Jordan

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Do you actually have any proof for this?

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Don't listen to me. Go to 10:25 in that above video and listen to Dr. Daniel Goldstein, Surgical Director of Cardiac Transplantation, Montefiore-Einstein Heart Center:

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Unlike kidney transplants where you can use a cadaveric (meaning someone who has died) to remove their kidney, when you are dealing with a heart transplant you've got to remove the heart from a patient whose heart is still beating
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It's an important point, this is always a beating-heart harvest unlike the kidney and other organs that can be removed after the patient's heart has stopped.

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Originally Posted by jnich67

Where did the term "incurable insanity" come from? How is that defined?

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It was a given in the question I asked: "If it's OK to kill and harvest innocent people, why shouldn't the same be done to violently insane people who have no chance of recovery AND have killed others?"

I would be happy for it to be defined and judged by the same level of medical staff who judge whether people in comas are worth keeping alive or better off having their lives ended for harvesting.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Here is one fine piece of furniture who awoke this morning, got out of bed, stretched, likely had his coffee and may even be reading this thread.

This guy sat in court in front of the family and friends of his victims and very calmly related how he brutally murdered his numerous victims. It was as if he were describing a hunting trip. No remorse. We in the USA overwhelmingly favor the death penalty, for people like this anyhow.

While it is true that incarceration for life is not a life any of us would choose it is also true that human beings are adaptable creatures and there is something wrong with the fact that this person may be enjoying the life that he deprived so many others of.

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I just read an article where they stated that the average cost per inmate is 29,000 a year, according to the Bureau of Justice there are 3,220 inmates on death row, which gives a total expenditure of 93,380.00 per year just for death row inmates. Our tax dollars at work.:gaah:

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

"occlusion of the proximal aorta" - Stops the beating heart from pumping blood to the rest of the body Then they stop life support and start removing the vital organs.

Do you need a video to prove it? *

Just to clarify I do support transplantation. But I strongly object to the misleading information that is fed to the public to persuade them to sign up as donors.

You have accepted that "brain death" is essentially the same as "death." Is incurable insanity really that different? I'm not seriously proposing it, just making a comparison.

(*) Not a graphic video of the moment, but if you go to 09:25 in the following documentary video, the surgeon describes when and how they stop the heart by placing ice on it:
YouTube - Heart Transplant Procedure From Montefiore-Einstein, NYC

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But Ray, this video is a heart transplant. Regardless of the heart issue, when the brain dies, the patient is dead. If they keep his heart and lungs working through machinery he still is dead. He stopped living, he is an ex-patient, he is singing with the choir eternal. Look dude, believe what you've been told. I will believe what I've witnessed. I have no reason to argue with you.

Brad

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Originally Posted by freebird

I just read an article where they stated that the average cost per inmate is 29,000 a year, according to the Bureau of Justice there are 3,220 inmates on death row, which gives a total expenditure of 93,380.00 per year just for death row inmates. Our tax dollars at work.:gaah:

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Carry the thousand and that makes it 93 million dollars every year

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Carry the thousand and that makes it 93 million dollars every year

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true dat. And we Americans wonder why our Government is so deep in debt.

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Originally Posted by icedog

But Ray, this video is a heart transplant. Regardless of the heart issue, when the brain dies, the patient is dead. If they keep his heart and lungs working through machinery he still is dead. He stopped living, he is an ex-patient, he is singing with the choir eternal. Look dude, believe what you've been told. I will believe what I've witnessed. I have no reason to argue with you.

Brad

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My wife tyold me in no uncertain terms that if she ever ends up braindead, she wants me to pull the plug and have her organs donated. Ditto in the case of extended coma. And I expect her to do the same for me if I am braindead.

And the last words of my ex colleagues grandfather (in front of his grandson who loved him dearly, and with 2 witnesses) when he got a stroke were 'Pull the plug! Remember!'

So just because these procedures are in place does not mean that doctors are just harvesting organs left right and center against the wishes of the patient or next of kin.

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Originally Posted by icedog

But Ray, this video is a heart transplant.

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Huh? What's your point?

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Originally Posted by icedog

Regardless of the heart issue, when the brain dies, the patient is dead. If they keep his heart and lungs working through machinery he still is dead. He stopped living, he is an ex-patient, he is singing with the choir eternal.

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Uh, yeah, right. Organ donor was not dead…he is still/now alive to tell the story… « Put a Thumb Tack in it!