Religulous

I promised Alex aka philadelph that I would watch this movie and post my thoughts.

Bill Maher didn't ask a single question I haven't already asked, and while I don't agree with his ultimate conclusions I do understand his skepticism.

I found this movie rather entertaining and a little sad.

I think anyone with a half a brain in their head will recognize and understand the questions that Mr. Maher asks of the major religions and I recommend this movie to all...unless you don't have the stomach to see your religious beliefs questioned!

I forgot about this movie. Will grab it tonight and watch it.

NOTE: I haven't seen it yet.
I am Jewish (though admittedly, not as thoroughly practicing as my father would like). My ex is Pagan. One of my best friends is an Episcopal priest. Others are devout Catholic. One or two born again. None of us mind having out beliefs questions. Indeed, many of us enjoy the strengthening of our faiths in light of that questioning. Those of my friends who have seen the movie calim that it is not skepticism...it is not questions to get to an answer...it is questions to get to HIS answer.
Did you find this to be the case? I look forward to seeing the movie to make up my own mind.

One can questions all the facts they want about any religion, but one's beliefs, once you actually feel them, are without question.


This is a stumbling block for many. I could never argue my faith with anyone enough to make them believe. You either feel it or you don't. It is not always about fact or fiction. One day it is just there, and you feel differently inside about things you questioned just a day before. One day you "believe" it, then one day you know it.

Tony

I thought the movie was pretty funny, but if you let it decide anything for you, you should probably examine the way you treat people in your life. I like Maher, but he is definitely an asshole to most people in this movie. Here is how I felt like it went:

Maher asks interesting question with a valid concern
Interviewee answers question to the best of their ability
Maher humiliates interviewee in a disrespectful manner

Rinse, Repeat.

Funny movie but not as enlightening as I wanted it to be given the subject. I should know better than to expect too much from a comedian I suppose...:o

-Rob

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Originally Posted by smokelaw1

NOTE: I haven't seen it yet.
I am Jewish (though admittedly, not as thoroughly practicing as my father would like). My ex is Pagan. One of my best friends is an Episcopal priest. Others are devout Catholic. One or two born again. None of us mind having out beliefs questions. Indeed, many of us enjoy the strengthening of our faiths in light of that questioning. Those of my friends who have seen the movie calim that it is not skepticism...it is not questions to get to an answer...it is questions to get to HIS answer.
Did you find this to be the case? I look forward to seeing the movie to make up my own mind.

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He was not looking for "The truth" but only looking to validate his view point, but that should be expected!

I haven't seen it and I probably won't. I respect people like Sam Harris and Bart Ehrman. Their writings and interviews are intelligent and respectful while espousing their point of view. I would really be turned off by a person with pseudo superiority ridiculing others religious beliefs.

Just saw this and found it really random. Like he goes from Christianity, to drugs, to Islam, to science, and in the middle of it all there is something about the Israel/Palestine issue and Iran, and you think he'll elaborate but instead the film changes direction again! but without any real answers or logical interviews.
Did anyone else find the actual cuts quite odd? In one of the interviews you could see that the response was cut and edited from different parts. All in the name of humour I guess. Anyway apart from him laughing at religion and trying to look clever I found no real substance to the film. Was hoping for much better. Just my 2p.

i checked it out, and he does make a few decent points, but mostly, it seems, as an unintended side effect of mockery. i mean, don't get me wrong, i'm an atheist and i agree with the point he's trying to make, but i found the way he made it to be less polemic and more acerbic. guess there's plenty of douchebags on both sides of the argument, and that's always been true, but i guess i was a little disappointed to see maher filming himself being a dick to people because it makes my side of the argument seem less credible.

so, a big thanks to bill maher for making people believe that atheists are childish and unreasonable just like theists. way to go, asshole.

Not a fan here, but one point really jumped out at me, Non-religious people make up 16% of the US population???
Way more than any other special interest group out there????
OH man we need a better lobby group.... :medvl:

Maybe I have grown a bit of a thick skin as I thought he dealt with his interviewees rather reasonably. His comedy on the other hand went a little over the top and his comments to the camera when he was not with the interviewee were really rude at points, but when actually dealing with them on point I thought he did ok.

I thought it was hilarious. Whether he mocks people or not... he's Bill Maher- that's what he does. I think that he does ask serious questions but gets frustrated when the answers he gets are just kind of ridiculous from a scientific standpoint. Let's face it, even theists ask and answer scientific questions like "what happens when you mix an acid and a base" with a meaningful answer. I think Maher was searching for meaningful answers that EVERYONE can agree with- and he didn't get those. Obviously you can't and shouldn't watch it thinking that he WON'T be a dick. There is a lot to be said about this movie depending on what side you watch it from, but I thought it was well put together and entertaining 'as a movie' in the end.

Thanks Mark!

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Originally Posted by jockeys

so, a big thanks to bill maher for making people believe that atheists are childish and unreasonable

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I haven't seen this film or even heard of it before, but I fear Jockey is right.

Having a laugh at how irrational religions are is one thing, but stretching this one joke out to fill an entire movie? Why bother? It's just insulting people for no good reason.

Any atheist worth his salt knows there are reasons why people follow religions and just accepts it. No point trying to "convert" them or point out flaws in their logic.

I've seen this film described as a comedy documentary. I suspect it fails on both counts, in the same way as a "docudrama" fails to be a factual documentary or a great drama.

I'll probably watch it when it's shown on satellite TV.

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

I haven't seen this film or even heard of it before, but I fear Jockey is right.

Having a laugh at how irrational religions are is one thing, but stretching this one joke out to fill an entire movie? Why bother? It's just insulting people for no good reason.

Any atheist worth his salt knows there are reasons why people follow religions and just accepts it. No point trying to "convert" them or point out flaws in their logic.

I've seen this film described as a comedy documentary. I suspect it fails on both counts, in the same way as a "docudrama" fails to be a factual documentary or a great drama.

I'll probably watch it when it's shown on satellite TV.

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I totally agree that RELIGIONS are irrational only because they are A WAY OF MAN TRYING TO MAKE HIMSELF RIGHT WITH GOD, but man cannot do this, it is God who accepts man and forgives him if he will only believe.

Also the atheist have flaws in their thinking, because in order to say there IS NO GOD they whould have to be the essence of what or who theist say God is. {All Knowing, All Powerful, & All Places at All Times}

Not wanting to start argument, just a private opinion.


point out flaws in their logic.


COULD YOU PLEASE POINT OUT ONE OR TWO FOR ME

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Originally Posted by paco

point out flaws in their logic.
COULD YOU PLEASE POINT OUT ONE OR TWO FOR ME

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I'd rather not, as I explained. It would be an exercise in futility and frustration for both of us.

But if you give me a logical reason to believe in God (other than simply wanting/needing to) I will listen.

Only, please ... no claims that the existence of a Creator explains an otherwise impossibly complex universe. The existence of a Creator would be an extra layer of complexity, not a simplification. Because no matter how complex or wonderful the universe is, any Creator must be at least as complex and wonderful, right? If a wonderfully complex universe can only exist by having a Creator, then the same argument applies to the Creator himself - he would need to have a Creator. So unless somebody proposes there is an infinite chain of Creators, this line of reasoning doesn't have any merit.

Oops. I seem to have pointed out an example of flawed religious logic after all. Sorry. ;)

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

If a wonderfully complex universe can only exist by having a Creator, then the same argument applies to the Creator himself - he would need to have a Creator. So unless somebody proposes there is an infinite chain of Creators, this line of reasoning doesn't have any merit.

Oops. I seem to have pointed out an example of flawed religious logic after all. Sorry. ;)

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First of all I agree that its not worth getting into a debate on here. I've heard that statement lots but wanted to point out that pretty much all the major religions believe God is inherently different from what he has created. Ie eternal, no beginning, no end, etc. Not understandable or comparable to anything we see (ie things which have beginnings and ends). You could say that was a cop out but then again even by your logic the creation is not as complex as the creator so will never be able to comprehend him.
I'm not saying this as an argument; just pointing out what most religions say.

I've not seen this movie nor do I plan to. My thoughts are that whatever helps an individual get through his or her day, be it beliefs, family, SRP, etc...and does not impose on someone else, or is illegal, is terrific.

Exploiting people for what they do or do not believe is ridiculous and simply makes people want to beat the hell out of you. I think it's odd how Billy points out in other shows I've seen him in how he is intellectually superior to others and we should all be happy that he's there to guide us. I do not look at people any different who are Jewish, Catholic, Atheist (sp), Muslim, etc...If they are decent people and treat others with respect than good for them, I hope good things happen to them.

Bill Maher, in my opinion, is not funny, he's a second rate assclown who when put on the spot by someone more intelligent than himself chooses to belittle them and use his access to the media to get the last word. He reminds me much of Michael Moore who, along with Billy, deserves a Brooklyn style beating in a rather public forum. Not for what they believe, this is America and you have the right to believe whatever you like, but for simply being di&*s!

I'm sure my views will differ from many and this was not meant to offend anyone, other than Billy or Michael, should they choose to join the forum, but simply express a thought that good people come in all shapes and sizes as well as colors, religons, jobs, etc..

I just saw this movie and i must say its entertaining and amusing.

I agree with many things he says, although I am "religious". But what this film shows is how uninformed and "cocooed" many religious people are, but we must question that he probably wanted these people in his film and not the more enlightened religious people.
That Vatican astronomer for example showed that he was religious but still not stupid and Maher actually was sympathetic to this man. I do not believe it is because someone is religious he is bad or stupid but rather how much he has really understood the meaning of his religion and of religion and faith in general.

One point Maher makes that I agree with him is when he says that the muslims do not recognize the "bad" parts of islam and the Koran, about infidels and holy war etc. He there says that they say so only to please an outsider. And to a large extent I agree with this observation. This is what I call "nice-islam", that infront of cameras muslims say no to these things and they claim for example that women and men are equals etc. While in reality it is not so.

When Maher talk of religion he also means religions that have scriptures, and I'm critical of these kinds of religion also as they are too segmented and the religious laws for example were written for a time and a place that does not correspond to today or tomorrow. Whereas religions that do not rely as heavily on scriptures are more adaptable and religious laws are subject to the social standards of the place and the time of today.

Back to the film..It has some inaccuracies and half truths that are often there to prove Mahers point.

I lastly want to say that many atheists that have made films such as this one, like that brittish fella (forgot his name), often claim that religions are intollerant and make a point out of that. But in the same time they themselves are quite intollerant and demeaning towards religious people.
But I must say I was quite entertained and amused by this film, so not bad to watch.

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Originally Posted by Rawaz

One point Maher makes that I agree with him is when he says that the muslims do not recognize the "bad" parts of islam and the Koran, about infidels and holy war etc. He there says that they say so only to please an outsider. And to a large extent I agree with this observation. This is what I call "nice-islam", that infront of cameras muslims say no to these things and they claim for example that women and men are equals etc. While in reality it is not so.

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Oh dear, debate time...
Most religions use violence for defence (as do all governments). Muslims, Chrisitians, and Jews have all had their fair share of holy wars. This whole violence for the sake of violence, kill the infidels talk etc. is just pure hype. You should check out the response to Wilders fitna video (on youtube) just to see how misinformed it really is. As for the whole womens rights issue; you cannot look at extremists like the taliban and say "oh this is Islam" any more than you can look at the Westboro Baptist Church and say they are the epitome of being Christian.
I'll stop now since I really don't want to get into a religious debate in a place I come to relax :p

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Originally Posted by MisterZadir

Oh dear, debate time...
Most religions use violence for defence (as do all governments). Muslims, Chrisitians, and Jews have all had their fair share of holy wars. This whole violence for the sake of violence, kill the infidels talk etc. is just pure hype. You should check out the response to Wilders fitna video (on youtube) just to see how misinformed it really is. As for the whole womens rights issue; you cannot look at extremists like the taliban and say "oh this is Islam" any more than you can look at the Westboro Baptist Church and say they are the epitome of being Christian.
I'll stop now since I really don't want to get into a religious debate in a place I come to relax :p

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I agree totally with you on this, but what I'm talking about is not that violence occurs for political reasons rather than religious. Even though for instance the Koran legitimises violence etc. What I'm talking about is that many of these figures say something to an outsider while within the Muslim community he says or acts something else, basically this is hypocrisy. And that is what I dislike.
About women's rights I do not look at the Taliban as an example here, but generally within Islam. For example according to the Sharia (Islamic law) a testimony of a woman or a non-Muslim is not equal to that of a Muslim man. As you say I do not wish to engage a debate about this at this point, but this was an example.
Hope I made things clear rather than stir things up again:w

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Originally Posted by Rawaz

I agree totally with you on this, but what I'm talking about is not that violence occurs for political reasons rather than religious. Even though for instance the Koran legitimises violence etc. What I'm talking about is that many of these figures say something to an outsider while within the Muslim community he says or acts something else, basically this is hypocrisy. And that is what I dislike.
About women's rights I do not look at the Taliban as an example here, but generally within Islam. For example according to the Sharia (Islamic law) a testimony of a woman or a non-Muslim is not equal to that of a Muslim man. As you say I do not wish to engage a debate about this at this point, but this was an example.
Hope I made things clear rather than stir things up again:w

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Hmm agreed about not stirring things up. This is not my intention either but I think we are hijacking this thread and a razor forum is not where I want to get into a religious debate since most of the ones I've seen don't end well. I'll just say that explanations about each of those things, and pretty much any question, are on google through countless other forums (if you stay away from the anti sites).
As for religious figures... well there are no religious figures. There is no religious hierarchy. Ie. no head, or pope, or leader to speak for all followers of the religion. The people you are thinking of are either heads of state or heads of some organization. Both these types of people have an agenda which is unlikely to be based on religion. I guess what I'm saying is don't paint everyone with the same brush.

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Originally Posted by MisterZadir

Hmm agreed about not stirring things up. This is not my intention either but I think we are hijacking this thread and a razor forum is not where I want to get into a religious debate since most of the ones I've seen don't end well. I'll just say that explanations about each of those things, and pretty much any question, are on google through countless other forums (if you stay away from the anti sites).
As for religious figures... well there are no religious figures. There is no religious hierarchy. Ie. no head, or pope, or leader to speak for all followers of the religion. The people you are thinking of are either heads of state or heads of some organization. Both these types of people have an agenda which is unlikely to be based on religion. I guess what I'm saying is don't paint everyone with the same brush.

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I never said any such thing, I know very well that there is no head of the Islamic community. There are some figures that certainly have an authority within the community, or rather communities, but not like the pope or the curia or Ponifex Maximus.
I think you misunderstood me my friend, or perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

I am usually very clear to say that Islam is very diversified and we cannot say "Muslims this or Muslims that" as the term Muslim is not referring to a homogeneous group. (you can see this in my other posts on this forum about Muslims). Also here I do not mean all muslims naturally, but I was only criticising the "nice-Islam" that is often brought forth by some to outsiders but then later when cameras are turned off they say something else.

Look Ma, I'm keeping my mouth shut!!!

I am loathe to wade into the murky depths that is religious debate, particularly as I have not seen the movie referred to in the OP. However, the good Lord gave us minds with which to think, so I will add my two cents.

IMO religion is a man-made construct specifically designed to garner power and influence using man's inherent spiritual questioning as a rather cynical (yet frustratingly effective) bait. Each religion has its own individual differences, but the common denominator is there.

I believe your spirituality is between you and your chosen God. It is personal. We are each individual, and I believe one of the reasons we (as a group) embrace the communal religion offered by other men is that it lets us off the hook somewhat from that person spiritual experience. We do not need to make a personal effort when someone else offers to do the hard work for us.

Anyway, they are some of my thoughts on Religion. Feel free to have a differing view. ;)

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

IMO religion is a man-made construct specifically designed to garner power and influence using man's inherent spiritual questioning as a rather cynical (yet frustratingly effective) bait. Each religion has its own individual differences, but the common denominator is there.

James.

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well reasoned. couldn't agree more.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I am loathe to wade into the murky depths that is religious debate, particularly as I have not seen the movie referred to in the OP. However, the good Lord gave us minds with which to think, so I will add my two cents.

IMO religion is a man-made construct specifically designed to garner power and influence using man's inherent spiritual questioning as a rather cynical (yet frustratingly effective) bait. Each religion has its own individual differences, but the common denominator is there.

I believe your spirituality is between you and your chosen God. It is personal. We are each individual, and I believe one of the reasons we (as a group) embrace the communal religion offered by other men is that it lets us off the hook somewhat from that person spiritual experience. We do not need to make a personal effort when someone else offers to do the hard work for us.

Anyway, they are some of my thoughts on Religion. Feel free to have a differing view. ;)

James.

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For all of our apparent differences we really don't think all that differently do we old friend?

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Originally Posted by sicboater

Maher asks interesting question with a valid concern
Interviewee answers question to the best of their ability
Maher humiliates interviewee in a disrespectful manner

Rinse, Repeat.

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I found Maher to be respectful to the people who deserved respect. Like the guys at the truck stop in the beginning. He showed no respect to the Pastor saying Jesus was a rich man. Judging from that particular pastors arrogance it was justified.

He wasn't respectful of the guy saying he's the second coming of Christ. Again, not entirely unjustified. You say you're the son of Gawd, then ya gots to expect someone will give ya a little hell for it.

So all in all I thought it was pretty balanced, but with a lean toward entertainment.

Now everyone can correct me if I'm wrong. Because at the SRP one should never be too resolute in their beliefs. As, someone, will always be a little smarter than I am here. :tu

And I mean that in a good way. I like knowing the truth even it's not what I think it is.


That's a good thing.

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Originally Posted by JMS

For all of our apparent differences we really don't think all that differently do we old friend?

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lol! No, I guess we do not. :D

James.

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Originally Posted by joscobo

I found Maher to be respectful to the people who deserved respect. Like the guys at the truck stop in the beginning. He showed no respect to the Pastor saying Jesus was a rich man. Judging from that particular pastors arrogance it was justified.

He wasn't respectful of the guy saying he's the second coming of Christ. Again, not entirely unjustified. You say you're the son of Gawd, then ya gots to expect someone will give ya a little hell for it.

So all in all I thought it was pretty balanced, but with a lean toward entertainment.

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I sort of weighed these in with the fact that he didn't go to a regular church with a congregation closer to the paradigm. Truckers, a guy who thinks he is the second coming, a theme park, talked to some fringe pastors, some vatican scholars, etc. I can see your point, but he does hand it to some people who don't deserve it like the guy who was in the book store. I would watch it again, don't get me wrong. I just won't expect any real enlightening information.

-Rob