Dark Matter

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

In the simulation betweem 2:30-2:38 you did not see a head-on collision?

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sure, that looked head-on relative to an observer in the same frame of reference

But even that cookie that encountered a head-on collision with my eating machine was not truly a head-on collision considering the tangential forces applied on the cookie and the machine by the rotation of the earth for instance

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

In the simulation betweem 2:30-2:38 you did not see a head-on collision?

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At that scale you can't tell much. Galaxies are huge.

I think you'll need some better data then a youtube video to claim their conclusions false.

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

What I'm saying is that if the model of the Big Bang is that the universe started at a single point, and is expanding outward from there, how could something approach from the opposite direction?

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because it's the entire 3-D universe that's expanding, not just the edge of it

It's expanding into a 4th spatial dimension so that any given object is seeing all other objects around it expanding directly away from it radially

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

because it's the entire 3-D universe that's expanding, not just the edge of it

It's expanding into a 4th spatial dimension so that any given object is seeing all other objects around it expanding directly away from it radially

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Exactly my point.

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Originally Posted by NYCshaver

At that scale you can't tell much. Galaxies are huge.

I think you'll need some better data then a youtube video to claim their conclusions false.

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I'd also say that they need some better evidence before claiming their ideas valid!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

Exactly my point.

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Alright, so why can't two objects simply buck the expansion due to some other forces and collide head-on? If necessary we can invoke dark energy :D

If I toss a ball into the air, it seems to come back down on me head-on, even though I know there are other forces acting on the ball. But those other forces are negligible in relative comparison to the event at hand

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Alright, so why can't two objects simply buck the expansion due to some other forces and collide head-on? If necessary we can invoke dark energy :D

If I toss a ball into the air, it seems to come back down on me head-on, even though I know there are other forces acting on the ball. But those other forces are negligible in relative comparison to the event at hand

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We may need to go a step further, and involve dark hocus-pocus if we are truly trying to get to a working universal model here....

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

I'd also say that they need some better evidence before claiming their ideas valid!:rolleyes:

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Why? The evidence looks pretty straight forward. In fact I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're saying is invalid?

They observed two galaxies collide and from that saw evidence of Dark Matter.

Now it seems you are saying they couldn't have collided the way they did because of the Big Bang.

So what exactly is wrong with their conclusion that they saw evidence of Dark Matter?

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

We may need to go a step further, and involve dark hocus-pocus if we are truly trying to get to a working universal model here....

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Sorry to interrupt you gents from your goal of finding the final truth of the dark matter, but from your OP it seemed that you somehow tried to link the dark matter and the expansion of the universe with the existence of God.
Now i really respect your beliefs, and with all respect i'm happy for you, but i think you won't find the answer, or proof, here.

Science is not ready, but rather an ongoing process, that tries to solve, get the evidence on what is happening here. Part of the scientific process is also the ability to make recalculations and agree that somethings done wrong before when ever such evidences arise.
Religion, or faith to be more exact, doesn't work that way. All you need to do is believe. Therefore you can't find a proof for believing something from the subject that is only a question of knowledge based on what we know and what we can proof.

From the start it would be useful to read, and understand, for example Newtons principles and find out any hocus-pocus there.

With all respects :)
Tomi

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Originally Posted by Sailor

Sorry to interrupt you gents from your goal of finding the final truth of the dark matter, but from your OP it seemed that you somehow tried to link the dark matter and the expansion of the universe with the existence of God.
Now i really respect your beliefs, and with all respect i'm happy for you, but i think you won't find the answer, or proof, here.

Science is not ready, but rather an ongoing process, that tries to solve, get the evidence on what is happening here. Part of the scientific process is also the ability to make recalculations and agree that somethings done wrong before when ever such evidences arise.
Religion, or faith to be more exact, doesn't work that way. All you need to do is believe. Therefore you can't find a proof for believing something from the subject that is only a question of knowledge based on what we know and what we can proof.

From the start it would be useful to read, and understand, for example Newtons principles and find out any hocus-pocus there.

With all respects :)
Tomi

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My OP :

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<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=8 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>In astronomy and cosmology, dark matter is a theoretical form of matter that is undetectable by its emitted radiation, but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter.<SUP id=cite_ref-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP> According to present observations of structures larger than galaxies, as well as Big Bang cosmology, dark matter and dark energy could account for the vast majority of the mass in the observable universe. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
So, scientifically speaking, dark matter is about as observable as the presence of God?

Theoretical
Undetectable
Presence can be inferred from...
"could account for..."

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I just found it interesting that scientific unobserveable, undetectable, "inferred from" stuff is OK. But religious unobservable, undetectable, inferred stuff gets dismissed out of hand as preposterous.


"All you need to do is believe" is an erroneous statement. If I did not have any supporting evidence for my belief I would want nothing to do with it.

All of us here will most likely not find out whether or not dark matter exists within our lifetimes.

But we will surely find out about the existance of God within our lifetimes.....or soon afterwards!:angel:

:)