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Every time Pres. Obama or one of his minions starts talking about the economy (e.g. jobs, banks, Wall Street), the stock market takes a dive? I would like to retire someday, which among other things would open up my position for someone else, but if this keeps up I will be working until I keel over and die.
Business has no faith in his abilities as President nor do they trust his administration to do right by business, big, small, or medium .
That is a good thing. :) Probably add years to your life. :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
Well, first of all, I think it is pretty clear that he is perceived as less permissive (or friendly, if you want to go that route) towards bgig business. This is particularly true and evident at themoment where he is discussing stricter rules on some HUGE market drivers, such as banks (look at the last two days.)
I will remind you all that for the last two to three years, there was nearly a 100% correlation of the markets being lower at the end of Pres. Bush's speeches than at the beginning. Don't know why, as he surely was a business friendly president.
I saw a chart on this someplace, got it in an e-mail as a joke IIRC something like Wall Street asks: "Would You Please !!!! just Shut up, Mr President"
You may be right. I guess this just goes to show that "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." is truely one on the greatest lies in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by smokelaw1
Maybe. We were never able to really figure out why that was happening. I'd love to hear from one of the "experts."Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
As to why it's going on with the president now...I think it is pretty clear that his recent policy announcements are NOT being well taken by the financial community. Not only are they heavily reflected inteh indeces, they provide much of the financing to the market that they are also a part of, so it's a bit of a double, hit, if I understand the efects correctly (or even close!)
For what i've read he maybe just doesn't want to be that much of a underling or a puppet dog of the big business than some of his predecessors were?
^^ You need to find a better quality of read.
Nope. Business is all about making money and they fear he will curtail that ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
You should have keept your money in government bonds instead of bear stearns stock. The governments tend to fail after, not before most businesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
Expecting somebody else to make money for you also means that you are dependent on them.
Because he's constantly talking about stifling business in general......more regulation for this, more for that.......more government here, more there.......spreading wealth around........instead of changing what really should be changed (and that is subject to opinion for obvious reasons) and what he campaigned on. Evil corporations this and government is always good that is a tired message and it seems like that is his only mantra. He'll get his way because those that voted for him will love him no matter what he does or says. He has a media that fawns all over him no matter how stupid or intelligent he sounds when he speaks. I'm wondering if he thinks that we can all work for the government at ridiculously high salaries. More government regulation and taxation will send more business overseas where there will be much less regulation and fiscal penalties. He and others like him will never understand the economic consequences of their actions (that includes Bush, I don't care for leftist RINOs either). They don't have to care because statistically politicians have a greater than 90% chance of getting re-elected. He's still focused on ramming health care down our throats.....and he still just might get it because it's not over yet by a long shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
Promising hope and change and delivering more socialism is not the way to win the hearts and minds of middle America.........forget about Wall Street.
I, too will have to work until I keel over and die. Not looking forward to it, either. My hopes of hunting, fishing, shooting guns, visiting brothels and gardening in retirement wither away daily.
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Originally Posted by CableDawg
Sorry folks: Even if you were lucky enough to save sufficient scratch for a nice retirement you'd still have to work for health insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
Another factor is that the markets are paper thin at the moment, and are only just starting to recover from the recession. The dealers are looking for signs in the market for what is going to be happening over the next few months to years, and comments like those do tend to encourage people to bail out..! It gives a signal for increased regulation and control, something the markets have always been skittish about.
You can see it in the money markets as well. Someone at the BoE makes a comment like "if inflation stays high we may have put rates up" (not really a sign of anything, just a quote from the basic book of monetary policy) and suddenly the markets are all over the place, selling off and rallying with no real pattern at all.
Its jumpy dealers who've had two years of crappy markets looking for signs from above about the future. If theres even a whiff of the future being bad, down go all the indices.
well, that is true, the stock markets have very little to do with the present, it's mostly about the future. and a lot of people, are pretty bad at understanding the present, and even worse at predicting the future. including the trading crowds.
those who are smart know what 'obama or any of his minions' will say well before he actually does and are converting this into money when the crowd acts on the public announcements.
I would say this is completely non-responsive as to the original question and also assumes facts that are not only not in evidence but are actually completely false.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Not really true as long as you have budgeted for health insurance as a part of your retirement savings. I am actually a bit better off than some since I can keep my current employer provided insurance once I retire.Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBango
Honest business is about making money.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
The stock market is about gambling with other folks hard earned money. Like any house of cards it appears that it can collapse quite quickly.
How exactly is the stock market gambling with other folks hard earned money? The last time I looked, the only money I had in the stock market was money I earned by my own hard work.Quote:
Originally Posted by welshwizard
Huh? You implied that your retirement is contingent on the stock market's response to the government's public announcements.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
How should I put it, if you are paid in stock instead of legal tender, you have a serious problem. If you are willingly converting your money into stocks assuming that risk is your own fault and as I pointed out it doesn't take government action for your stock to loose all of its value, government inaction is just as good if not better at it.
I just don't understand the whine when the stock market has been propped to its current level largely by the big government bailouts. Short memory?
The market has an emotional index, I forget the moniker for it, and this plays a huge part, you must know that the traders and stock companies dont care about the little guys ( anyone not an accredited investor, with liquidity of 250k or more) so because they care about big business solely as means for making money, whenever Obama suggests more regulation it kills the free captial market that drives this country.
Regulations can be good if they help the consumer and protect him, but I see most of the regulations helping big governement these days, although some laws have been very helpful, like the law passed for creditors recently, that one worked.
It seems for everyone one that works 10 bomb or more. oh well when your making omlets u break eggs I guess., better then a president stuck on status quo.
Cheers
David
If you'd bought shares in one of the recently failed British banks, the value of said shares plummeted because of the cavalier attitude of those managing and investing the bank's assets.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
You might have been one of 'the other folks' who trusted the bank's management to manage the money prudently. Instead they took outrageous risks, which in any other sphere would be described as gambling.
I am unaware of any big government bailouts proping up the stock market, can you support this with any facts? I am also unaware of any examples of how government inaction has resulted in a serious decline in the stock market. In fact, I know of few if any cases where government inaction has ever resulted in anything bad. Government action on the other hand almost always either 1) makes things worse or 2) creates more and bigger problems than any it solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Your first reply was non-responsive because the question was why the market always falls when President Obama or others in his administration talk about the economy. The implied fact that was not only not in evidence and was actually false was that I owned Lehman Bros. stock. Never have.
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Originally Posted by welshwizard
But it was the Banks, or more correctly the Banks' management that was gambling with other peoples money, not the stock market. Unless of course you believe that the banks and the stock market are one and the same.
Some regulation is of course necessary since the real world is not perfect. I don't really qualify as one of "the little guys" at least not by your definition, but I don't really think the traders etc are looking out for me either other as in coincides with their own self interest (if they do well by me, they do well by themselves as well). I am even less confident that the government is looking out for me either, rather the oposite in fact as I don't think that any politician ever looks out for anyone other than himself and his only interest is in power. The best I can hope for is that they will just leave me alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirshavesalot
Sometimes it's difficult to see where one ends and the other begins. The banks and other financial institutions are certainly entrusted with money belonging to their shareholders. The markets will react according to how these institutions are perceived to be performing, or how they think they may perform in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
Check the correlations of the stock market with the news of bank troubles, in particular failures.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
For example find out the biggest drop in the Dow index and look up the top news event of that day.
That's nice in theory, better check the facts see my previous comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
Since it apparently escaped you, I was actually addressing your retirement concern, which was the motivation for your question (clearly very important to you since you chose to include it as half of your post). In case you missed it as well, I have answered the question in your thread title in a subsequent post.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
No implied facts. My mistake for overestimating your ability to understand hyperbole as a mean of emphasizing a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by fccexpert
I already clarified it, but let me repeat. In today's market stock values are based on predictions of the future and since the government has enormous power to change the future any public announcements are taken as indication that the original predictions will be wrong, with default presumption of negative consequences.
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Originally Posted by gugi
??????????? :banghead:
It's happening again :mad:
splash!!!!
Oh well, I guess that explains it all. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi