There are predators among us

Friday night about 11:30 PM I was home at my little condo and the helicopter with the search light was flying overhead for over an hour. Sweeping the area and I knew something was going on.wrong. I live a few blocks from a convenience store. A few blocks further east is the tattoo shop where I've worked for the past 15 years. Ten or so years ago 2 predators killed three women during a robbery in a restaurant directly across the street from where I work. They were caught when one of the two, proud of himself, bragged to a friend who turned him in.

Friday night two clerks who worked in the convenience store were murdered in a robbery. Here is the report in the local paper along with the video from the security camera. I've stood in front of that counter paying for gasoline or whatever more times than I can count. So I went to work on Saturday wondering if I knew the two men who had been killed. I keep a 357 magnum on my person when I am at work since it is largely a cash business. Saturday was a slow day and a slower night.

I was at the shop until closing at 11PM and wondered if, with an empty parking lot, thieves would think it was an easy score. Just pull in and shoot me and my co-worker and take the cash. When I was a kid, maybe 10 or 12 years old, I remember thinking how glad I was that I didn't live in a violent society such as what I saw depicted in movies about the wild western frontier and later the gangsters of the 20s and 30s. Little did I know.

I normally never carry a gun when I'm not at work. Now I will probably slip it in my pocket as I did this morning when I took the garbage out. In this world today you can't be too careful.

Quite relieved that i don't have those concerns. My in laws are in South Africa, but even there I feel safe on the whole.
Look after yourself Jimmy.

If i didn't read it from you i couldn't believe such things happening in a real world. It is sad. I feel sorry for those who got murdered just because they were doing their jobs. Take good care for yourself Jimmy.
We have it totally different here, but probably we are going to that same direction some day. Happy i am old enough not to see those times coming.

Getting killed in a robbery is very very rare here, as burglars and robbers do not usually carry firearms. I do not even remember when it was the last time someone died in a robbery here. Must be many years ago.

It's a rough world, out there. Stay safe, Jimmy.

:OT As an aside, I saw some of your work in the Inkslinger thread.... really capital stuff. I'm not a tattoo guy myself, but I appreciate the skill that goes into clean lines and the artful design itself.

i myself have lived in some pretty rough parts of town.. i've found that with the right look in your eye.. no one messes with you.. i was once robbed at knife point when i was about 22.. i pulled 6 bucks out my front pocket and said it was all i had..

I had a guy pull a knife on me in school over a seat. A couple of years later I heard that a 15 year old kid got stabbed in the chest over a lettermans jacket at the same school. People get crazier every day.

"I carry a .45,because a cop is too heavy"

I firmly believe more ppl need to exercise the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. You can't disarm criminals,so the citizenry needs to protect themselves.

Jimmy, I am shocked and saddened, but not surprised. My heart goes out to the families of the victims. There was a home invasion and fatal shooting in my Tucson neighborhood 2 weeks ago, with the usual perimeter search and helicopter orbits overhead. Good thing is that one of the suspects was killed and another wounded by the homeowner-the wounded suspect and his companion were caught at a nearby hospital while seeking help for his bullet wound. You cannot rely on the police to protect you from an armed robbery. Surveillance cameras are no protection from room temperature IQ Orcs. My wife is trained in firearms use and has a .357 Ruger, and I carry a Sig .40 everywhere it is legal. I have only had to draw it once, fortunately, at a gas station with a would be robber who fled cursing obscenely. My wife hid behind me. You never know when you go out of the house if you will return again, so my motto is to live life to the fullest, and to always be mentally prepared for defense.

It's all just a reflection on the society we live. Social breakdown and people viewing others as prey. "Kill them all".

Yes, I tend to agree with Bigspender.

Gangs, and random gang violence are a problem. I rarely leave the house unarmed anymore. While the probabilities I will need a firearm are low, they are not nil.

Just the same, I prefer to have the freedom to arm my self than prohibit law abiding citizens the right to carry if they choose.

Even though we live in a good-sized capital city where poverty and unemployment are high, my wife thinks nothing of walking several blocks alone to the store in the middle of the night. Violent crime (particularly between strangers) is virtually nonexistent here. Have to say, it took me months to get used to it.

I'll have to teach her plenty when we move to the U.S. this summer. That's the one part about going back home that I'm *not* looking forward to. :(

I hope you never have to use it, but at least you wise enough to be prepared. Fortunately i haven't had to defend myself with my ccw either. I can't remember who made the quote, but: "Chance favors the prepared mind". I see so many folks who are oblivious of their surroundings, flashing wallets w/cash, basically folks acting like lambs. There are some open carry laws being proposed in Oklahoma and I hope they get passed, I honestly feel that if everyone was armed both mentally and physically, thugs would either find another occupation or at least move on to where their occupation is "safer"...like D.C.

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Originally Posted by northpaw

I'll have to teach her plenty when we move to the U.S. this summer. That's the one part about going back home that I'm *not* looking forward to. :(

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Don't worry, the majority of the US are actually safe and pleasant places. The nature of the violence in some crimes however is such that it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

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Originally Posted by Hillie

Don't worry, the majority of the US are actually safe and pleasant places. The nature of the violence in some crimes however is such that it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

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+1
The vast majority is very safe.

A great shame that people are prepared to destroy so much for so little. I am happy to live in a country where these things are relatively uncommon.

Hi Jimmy,
I'm sorry to hear of the deaths of those poor people.It must be awful living near to that sort of thing .In England we don't (and are not allowed to by law) carry firearms.
At times though i wish i could - as a taxi driver I am always under threat of being robbed - but mercifully have never been threatened with a weapon.(I think I woulld s..t myself if i was threatened with a gun.)
It just so happens I caught a woman red-handed lifting a cash note out of my cashbox last saturday afternoon when she thought I wasn't looking.
Yep-it's all around you these days.
What I don't like about USA robberies is that they shoot you without warning and no quarter given.
Stay safe - hope you never have to use that revolver.
regards
Noggs :mace:

In most parts of the world a human life ain't worth a plug nickel and that's just the way it is. The U.S is no exception. Most violent criminals have more respect for their pet dog than any person they come into contact with.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

In most parts of the world a human life ain't worth a plug nickel and that's just the way it is. The U.S is no exception. Most violent criminals have more respect for their pet dog than any person they come into contact with.

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Agreed. It actually took me well into my adulthood to realize that not all people were raised with a conscience and a number have none at all. More akin to animals than humans in that regard. To kid oneself or deny such a stark difference in people is the same as thinking there's an outside chance that if you introduced yourself properly to the grizzly in the woods it would skip through the meadow with you hand in hand rather than rip your head off. In Biblical times such predators were regarded as being possessed by demons. That's interesting.

+1 on most areas being safe. We have sometimes forgotten to close our overhead garage door at night leaving everything open as have our neighbors right across the street. Never a thing taken. We all know our neighbors and they know us.

Of course, anything can happen to anyone anywhere; a double murder in our town last year. It wasn't a random act though.

Chris L

Sadly, due to having a mental illness, I can not carry a gun. I can however carry a knife and was trained in hand to hand combat in the Army. As long as they're close enough to grab/tackle, I have a fighting chance. Luckily I live in an area where robberies, armed or not, rarely happen and when they do, generally the weapon is not used. It's just there for intimidation purposes.

I feel for and will be praying for the families of the victims. It's so sad that people are killed senselessly. I too think that everyone who is legally able to carry should.

Always watch your back Jimmy. I will also be praying that you will never have to make use of your weapon.

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Originally Posted by ChrisL

+1 on most areas being safe. We have sometimes forgotten to close our overhead garage door at night leaving everything open as have our neighbors right across the street. Never a thing taken. We all know our neighbors and they know us.

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Don't kid yourself. If I were to say let's go over to Ed Gein's house for lady fingers you have to be a certain age and from Wisconsin to get the 'joke' and it ain't funny. There is the BTK killer of Wichita, Kansas. Another place where we can leave our doors open. Both of these guys were well thought of in their communities.

Ah but it is only our society becoming sicker, it wasn't like this years ago. But it was for the Clutter family if you read 'In Cold Blood' by Truman Capote. Finally I resurrect this thread that I posted a year ago with poll. My doors stay locked, thank you, and I am always aware of my surroundings and who is within them. :mace:

You're right on that one Jimmy, anything can happen to anyone anywhere. I won't live or work in the District (inside Washington DC) because of their gun laws and also, the amount of criminals who illegally posses them. I live and work just across the Potomac in Virginia where the concealment of a firearm is legal. I carry a Glock 40 cal everyday because I can understand the limitation of Government, but I'll carry that Glock second amendment or not.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Don't kid yourself. If I were to say let's go over to Ed Gein's house for lady fingers you have to be a certain age and from Wisconsin to get the 'joke' and it ain't funny. There is the BTK killer of Wichita, Kansas. Another place where we can leave our doors open. Both of these guys were well thought of in their communities.

Ah but it is only our society becoming sicker, it wasn't like this years ago. But it was for the Clutter family if you read 'In Cold Blood' by Truman Capote. Finally I resurrect this thread that I posted a year ago with poll. My doors stay locked, thank you, and I am always aware of my surroundings and who is within them. :mace:

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Good point, Jimmy.

My wife grew up in North Minneapolis in the early 70's. She, as a young girl could and did walk 3-4 blocks from her house to the corner store by herself or with a young girlfriend or two; as did my mother in Northeast Minneapolis in the early 50's. For most including myself as a parent now, such freedom from fear is unthinkable.

Amen to our society becoming sicker. Start by ditching your TV, people! It's liberating as all get out.

Chris L

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Originally Posted by ChrisL

Good point, Jimmy.

My wife grew up in North Minneapolis in the early 70's. She, as a young girl could and did walk 3-4 blocks from her house to the corner store by herself or with a young girlfriend or two; as did my mother in Northeast Minneapolis in the early 50's. For most including myself as a parent now, such freedom from fear is unthinkable.

Amen to our society becoming sicker. Start by ditching your TV, people! It's liberating as all get out.

Chris L

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When I was a kid we didn't lock our doors and there was no worry about me going anywhere alone. Just look at Halloween and 'trick or treat'. When I was a kid they didn't put needles or razor blades in candy and apples. By the seventies I had to go with my step daughter while she went from house to house and then throw away whatever she was given. I had bought candy to replace what she had gotten but it sure was different than twenty years previous.

Another thing is hitch hiking. As a teenager I left home at 15 and I hitchhiked all over the country. Woody Guthrie called it the road of the sunburned thumb and I took it. Rode freight trains too. People would pick you up back in those days and although even then in the sixties it was a dangerous practice for either party most of the time there were no problems. By the seventies it was rare to see anyone hitchhiking. By then I was done with my vagabonding and had become a union ironworker with my own car. If I saw a hitchhiker I wouldn't pick them up but you rarely saw one. I bet I haven't seen a hitchhiker in over thirty years.

That is an unfortunate incident. My heart goes out to the families of the victims.

If you haven't read Lt Col Dave Grossman's piece on Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs... you should.
On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

Be alert.

I don't know how many of us delivered newspapers, but at age 11, I used to get up at 4:00 am before school started and then on the weekends to deliver 150 papers. Age freakin 11!!! In the Detroit area! This was from '72 to '77.

I can't imagine in my wildest dreams letting my kids or any parent letting their kids do that now. I think someone would call the Dept. of Social Services on you.

For all of the utlra-cool, time saving, entertaining crap we built ourselves, we lost our souls somewhere along the way.

Many people live in fear and seem to enjoy it.

I guess the mind spends a lot of fantasy time imagining how you'll give it to the bad guy. Which is one way to enjoy your fearfulness.

I got my first tattoo in Fayetteville NC many years ago. The artist & shop owner carried a 1911 in on his belt in an open top holster becuse of the dangerous nature of that cash business. Since then, I've always assumed that all tattoo artists walk around strapped for that very reason. Maybe most folks will think the same and not trifle with you, Jimmy.

Stay safe, sir.

Larry

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Originally Posted by kevint

Many people live in fear and seem to enjoy it.

I guess the mind spends a lot of fantasy time imagining how you'll give it to the bad guy. Which is one way to enjoy your fearfulness.

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Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they are not really after me. :cool:

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Originally Posted by LarryP

I got my first tattoo in Fayetteville NC many years ago. The artist & shop owner carried a 1911 in on his belt in an open top holster becuse of the dangerous nature of that cash business. Since then, I've always assumed that all tattoo artists walk around strapped for that very reason. Maybe most folks will think the same and not trifle with you, Jimmy.

Stay safe, sir.

Larry

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Larry, I carry mine concealed. My father taught me, when I was a kid, that if you were going to cut somebody never let them know you had a knife until they were cut.

That's a very smart lesson you got as a kid. Sorry to hear you have to use it daily. Sad story about those boys in that circle K. Stay safe man.

Well, I was held up at gunpoint in an off licence in Pyrford in Surrey, and you dont get any more quiet than Pyrford! Its basically a little home counties village and the most trouble you usually get is the odd yobbo on a scooter.

After that experience, I'm all for concealed carry and home defence. I wasnt before, but I sure as heck am now! You're right, there are some nasty pieces of work out there.

Take care Jimmy, and stay safe.

All the best,

Stu

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Originally Posted by Stubear

Well, I was held up at gunpoint in an off licence in Pyrford in Surrey, and you dont get any more quiet than Pyrford! Its basically a little home counties village and the most trouble you usually get is the odd yobbo on a scooter.

After that experience, I'm all for concealed carry and home defence. I wasnt before, but I sure as heck am now! You're right, there are some nasty pieces of work out there.

Take care Jimmy, and stay safe.

All the best,

Stu

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I am so sorry to hear that Stuart. Where I live we have concealed carry ability. Over the last 7 or 8 years, they have given out thousands and thousands of licenses. We have never had a single incedent invovling a person with a concealed carry permit. I support with all of my being your rigtht to a concealed carry and ability to defend yourself.

I live in a very nice quiet neighborhood as well. Two days ago a 13 year old girl was walking home after getting off of the school bus and a man in an old red van started following her and video taping her. She started to run and he sped up, but she eluded him in some back yards. People have had enough of this and are not going to take much more.

David

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Originally Posted by Rmaldon240

That is an unfortunate incident. My heart goes out to the families of the victims.

If you haven't read Lt Col Dave Grossman's piece on Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs... you should.
On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

Be alert.

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I found that article to be rather poor. I should not have laid my previous post at Jimmy's feet but read this:

"...I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?" "

This is the what I was referring to. I have been scared shitless on many occasions. One needs more than a gun to protect himself and those around him.

There was a show on Fresh Air with Terry Gross where she was interviewing a woman who was in a McDonald's IIRC when a deranged individual came in and started shooting. The woman's mother and father were among those killed. She also regretted that although she had a concealed carry permit she was unarmed. I don't remember the state in which this occurred.

It was a relatively rare occurrence fifty years ago. Charles Whitman is a name most of us know above a certain age. We remember him because what he did was so outrageous and uncommon. A shooter went into a McDonald's in West Palm a couple of years ago and killed a dozen or so people before the police arrived and shot and killed him. I couldn't tell you his name. This a couple of blocks from the bicycle shop I frequently hang out in.

This sort of thing is so common now that we are desensitized to it. Recently there was a special on about the St. Valentines Day Massacre. It made headlines around the world, many movies have been made and books written on it. If someone mowed down 7 men in a garage nowadays I doubt it would make page 1 in the local newspaper. It ain't getting better out there.

When I was still in the Army and stationed in Oklahoma there were two different occasions in which someone in my unit was shot. One was shot in the head in a drive by at a local bar. Never even made the news. The other occasion was in a night club where a man was escorted out by two bouncers. The man re-entered the club with a hand gun and fired eight shots, two of them hitting one of my NCO's in the leg. Again, nothing mentioned even in the local paper.

My apologies for being unclear once again. I messed up the quote from Rmaldon's source. which I shall repair.

The regret IME should be for doing nothing, not the regret of forgetting the gun.

Kevint, I don't like that article...... I LOVE IT.

In My Experience no one ever needs a gun...until they REALLY need a gun.

I have been in my fair share of confrontations and I have never regretted the fact that I was able to use whatever amount of force was necessary to keep myself and those around me safe.

I will say that anyone that walks around armed should be very proficient in the deployment and use of their weapon.