Theodore Roosevelt's on Immigrants in 1907.

This was over in another forum I browse and I thought it interesting.


Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Things have definitely changed in the past 103 years and not always for the better.

Just wanted to hear your opinions.

I think my signature says it all

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Originally Posted by IsaacRN

I think my signature says it all

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I was hoping you would be the one to respond to the OP!:rofl2:

HAHA...

Im glad i didnt dissapoint. You know, the whole immigration thing has me irked so to speak. Let me hop on me soapbox.

I live in a border city with Mexico. There is so much Mexican Heritage pride and I can certainly understand that. But, it seems that no one takes the time or effort to learn English. In my city, It seems that if you dont know Spanish, there is something wrong with you. I often am asked, why dont you know Spanish? My answer is usually simple. I live in America, and we use to speak English here, Im the last hold out.

You often see TONS of Mexican flags on vehicles and storefronts. My question to that is simply, if things are so much better, why are you here? Ive seen houses that have the Mexican Flag hanging without any signs of the American flag. Now, I am of Hispanic lineage, and my loyalty is toward America. My Mexican Grandfather always loves to say, If a war breaks out tomorrow in Mexico, lets see how many of these people waving their flags and are "puro mexicanos" go back down south and help fight the fight.

I could keep going on and on, but dont want to sound like a bigot, nor do I want to offend anyone. Thats just a small glimpse of what I go through on a daily basis.

"Things have definitely changed in the past 103 years and not always for the better."

Not really. A good number of those early 20th century immigrants either didn't hear or refused to listen to TR. Thousands returned to their European homelands during WWI to fight in their armies.

Their departure created a labor shortage in the industrial Northern United States making it possibe for hundreds of thousands of southern blacks to migrate to the North in the largest demographic shift in American history and get jobs in U. S. industries that, up until that point, refused to hire them.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Nice Sig.


I didn't say nothing was better, in fact, most things are much better. But I was going on the loyalty to the country that allowed you in, and the language barrier. I treat all my crew members (white, black and hispanic/latin) equally but yet I definitely don't get the same treatment from the latter. And yes, they are all payed equally too. I actually learned Spanish knowing that in the construction and horticulture businesses that I would make my life much easier. And it has a hundred times over. But I am still the gringo giving them orders. Should I have even had to learn Spanish in the first place? I guess people in other countries could say the same about having to learn English in school but it is the trade language.

Hell even some food labels are in english/spanish now. I have to think that if you come into this country, you should know what fat and calories are.

I hope no one takes this as bashing people of hispanic or latin heritage. I enjoy the company of all races and ethnicities. But hey, I will never win because this is the melting pot of the world and we just gotta suck it up.

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Originally Posted by The Dude

Hell even some food labels are in english/spanish now. I have to think that if you come into this country, you should know what fat and calories are.

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Actually this is the exact same approach that you used yourself. Adding spanish label is giving the manufacturer/vendor an advantage. Probably pays way over 100 times over too, since the ink is really cheap.

Here's what I've learned about America - if it's making money it's good.

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Originally Posted by IsaacRN

HAHA...

Im glad i didnt dissapoint. You know, the whole immigration thing has me irked so to speak. Let me hop on me soapbox.

I live in a border city with Mexico. There is so much Mexican Heritage pride and I can certainly understand that. But, it seems that no one takes the time or effort to learn English. In my city, It seems that if you dont know Spanish, there is something wrong with you. I often am asked, why dont you know Spanish? My answer is usually simple. I live in America, and we use to speak English here, Im the last hold out.

You often see TONS of Mexican flags on vehicles and storefronts. My question to that is simply, if things are so much better, why are you here? Ive seen houses that have the Mexican Flag hanging without any signs of the American flag. Now, I am of Hispanic lineage, and my loyalty is toward America. My Mexican Grandfather always loves to say, If a war breaks out tomorrow in Mexico, lets see how many of these people waving their flags and are "puro mexicanos" go back down south and help fight the fight.

I could keep going on and on, but dont want to sound like a bigot, nor do I want to offend anyone. Thats just a small glimpse of what I go through on a daily basis.

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Living in Texas, I'm sure you understand that English is the SECOND language and not the first for the region. I am, of course, leaving out the REAL first languages, i.e. the tongues of the native peoples who were largely either rubbed out or assimilated.

I'm not snarking at you, but I find that Americans who complain that immigrants to this nation should "learn English" are, as the bible puts it, trying to remove the mote in their neighbors' eyes before addressing the beam in their own. Let's face it: most Americans don't know "gerund" from "geriatric" and think "verb tense" is something that happens to you in an English exam.

Of especially stunning ignorance was the recent ad run by Alabama GOP gubernatorial candidate Tim James demanding that the state of Alabama offer driver's license exams ONLY in English. Me, I couldn't resist addressing it:

YouTube - Tim James Speaks English

I will personally get behind an "English Only" national mandate the very DAY that the same people who generally advocate for it learn to speak it.

Yes, it is a sentiment that is difficult to argue against. We have a similar thinking here in Australia, and it has become particularly dominant over the past decade or so with refugees - economic and social. We even have an Australian test now for immigrants. They have to answer the important questions like "Who was Don Bradman" (famous Australian cricket player). As you can see, serious stuff.

By and large I think I agree with the idea - if you immigrate to a country, then you should assimilate into that country. But how do you define it? And what about the culture that was indigenous? Did the first settlers assimilate, or did they annihilate? How do you tell people that they must assimilate to an arbitrary culture that made no attempt themselves to assimilate with the culture that was here when they first arrived as refugees?

Tricky questions, I think.

James.

Well I think its a lazy attitude that we have today that basically makes everything as easy as possible. My Grandmother who is full blooded German and came over after the war was to learn english, take the citizenship test in english. Now when we make things so easy as to not offend anyone, you tend to dilute expectations of a nation.

I completely agree with you in that this nation is appauling in its education system. Im ammazed that comments can be made that Bill Cosby is speaking "too white" when his conversation is just that of an educated man.

All in all, I blame all this on the downward spiral of the world :)

As far as the "demanding assimilation" issue goes, it could be argued that the country (or culture) that is attractive enough to draw in immigrants has the right to decide what the requirements are.

As for the Europeans not assimilating when they came to North America, it's apples and oranges. They were coming to create their own society - not to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Native Americans had created with theirs.

(FWIW, I don't have strong opinions one way or the other, so I won't be arguing any of the above. I'm just presenting some thoughts that occurred to me.)

It is interesting that Texas has so many settlers from Mexico who consider themselves Mexicans but live in Texas. This is the opposite of the situation that existed before Texas gained its independence. Many Americans settled in Texas, then part of Mexico, and considers themselves American (or Texicans). This is not an argument for any particular point of view, just an observation.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Did the first settlers assimilate, or did they annihilate? How do you tell people that they must assimilate to an arbitrary culture that made no attempt themselves to assimilate with the culture that was here when they first arrived as refugees?

Tricky questions, I think.

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Well they're tricky only if you want to claim some moral high ground. I'd allow everybody the option to annihilate if they want to (or wanna). And if/when they succeed they can impose klignon, aramaic, LOLCODE, or anything else they desire, as the language of the land.

As a legal matter, US does not have an official language and only about half of the states have instituted such over the last 30 or so years (Texas is not among them). Which means that language is just a tool to function in a society and if you have language troubles, you better start learning yourself, instead of trying to force other people to do it.

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Originally Posted by The Dude

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us...

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This is indeed being done. I think it is important, however, to make the distinction between "immigrant" and "American Citizen." Immigrants come in to the country, and are given 10 years, according to current laws, to become a US citizen. To do so, he must pass an english language test and one regarding citizenship and government.

I guess the rest of the arguments revolve around whether cultural / ethnic pride is something that goes against being a citizen. When on one hand, you have Italian Americans celebrating the Festival of San Gennaro, Irish Americans celebrating St. Patrick's Day, Chinese Americans celebrating Chinese New Year, African Americans celebrating Kwanza, and so on, I think that Mexican Americans riding around with Mexican flags on Cinco de Mayo isn't all that different, is it?

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Originally Posted by The Dude

...he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin.

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What he said.

Anyway, politicians come and go, and say things to please their constituents. That is why we have laws. Imagine if someone quoted GW a century from now as gospel truth? :gaah:

If Teddy said that today, I seriously doubt he would be re-elected.

My great grandmother-may she rest in peace, emigrated from Russia to the US.

From the day she arrived until the day she died, she spoke not one word of English.

So what's my point?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

But how do you define it? And what about the culture that was indigenous? Did the first settlers assimilate, or did they annihilate? How do you tell people that they must assimilate to an arbitrary culture that made no attempt themselves to assimilate with the culture that was here when they first arrived as refugees?

Tricky questions, I think.

James.

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Because the indigenous people did not have a set of immigration rules and regulations to abide by. The tribes of America were at war and the first settlers just managed to get here at a good time with better weapons. They did annihilate but no one was going to stop them. And to the winner goes the spoils. And if it were to happen today, say China took over, I would do my damnedest to learn their language(s) as fast as possible.

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Originally Posted by IsaacRN

You often see TONS of Mexican flags on vehicles and storefronts. My question to that is simply, if things are so much better, why are you here? Ive seen houses that have the Mexican Flag hanging without any signs of the American flag. Now, I am of Hispanic lineage, and my loyalty is toward America. My Mexican Grandfather always loves to say, If a war breaks out tomorrow in Mexico, lets see how many of these people waving their flags and are "puro mexicanos" go back down south and help fight the fight.

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Then again many southerners still display the confederate flag. It's just the sort of thing people do.

firstly let me state that i didn't read everyone's replies.. i should have.. but i felt like responding after have only read a few..

anyway.. i'm not a full blooded native american indian by definition.. my mother was a chumash indian from california and my father is half rosebud sioux and half english.. he grew up and still lives on the rosebud reservation in south dakota.. i grew up on my mother's side of the family.. chumash land stretches the coast of california as far south as malibu.. i live in santa monica.. it's 5 minutes south of malibu.. as far as i'm concerned.. i live in my native land..

the chumash were colonized by spanish missionaries.. and forced to learn spanish.. before that my people spoke inezeno.. they were later assimilated into the united states and forced to learn english..

as a citizen of the united states and more importantly a person living in los angeles.. i speak english and enough spanish to function with spanish speaking people of los angeles.. the united states is a melting pot of every nation.. immigrants make up this nation..

i'm not sure what it is that i'd really like to state.. but i would like to also point out that there is a difference between america and the united states..

The world is constantly changing. Whether that change is for the better or worse depends on your place in the world.
The problem with quoting long dead politicians is that it is very likely that they would see things differently now and make different speeches.
The United Kingdom is very much a melting pot of different peoples, in the town where I was born Polish is spoken as much as English. Why? because the Poles work hard and are willing to do jobs that many English people won't do.
The indigenous population population feel that many jobs are beneath them or do not pay enough, especially hard manual work, immigrants flow in to fill the gap.

Oh well, within a few years everyone will be speaking Arabic anyway.

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Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

within a few years everyone will be speaking Arabic anyway.

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We adopted their system of numerals long ago, so in that sense our scientists and mathematicians have a head start.

(This is indeed being done. I think it is important, however, to make the distinction between "immigrant" and "American Citizen." Immigrants come in to the country, and are given 10 years, according to current laws, to become a US citizen. To do so, he must pass an english language test and one regarding citizenship and government.)

No, you have to distinguish between nonimmigrant,immigrant and U.S Citizen. An Immigrant with a "green card" can stay here as long as he or she wishes and never become a citizen. A nonimmigrant can stay as long as their visa keeps being extended. Also there are waivers for people to pass literacy requirements depending on age and amount of time living in the U.S. The time requirement for an Immigrant to become a U.S Citizen is 5 years, 3 if married to a U.S Citizen and there are even waivers for that.