Billy the Kid may be riding again

Just got this out of tonight's NY Times here. This has been going on awhile with some wanting to exhume the remains of Billy and his mom to check DNA. There is a school of thought that Pat Garret let the kid get away and someone else is in the grave. Then there is the quest to fulfill the then Governor Lew Wallace's promise to give Billy a pardon. Wallace was famed for being the author of the novel Ben Hur.

The current governor of NM is Bill Richardson, the unsuccessful presidential candidate who still has ambitions to sit in the white house. Why he would want to give a pardon to a guy who escaped from jail by killing a couple of lawmen is beyond me but the world is more like the Twilight Zone the longer I live. :)

Despite my vote (who cares) it's an interesting story.

I know the guys a folk hero (a bit like Ned Kelly in Australia and Dick Turpin in the UK), but government shouldnt pardon convicted criminals years down the line unless they were found to be innocent. For example, the Derek Bentley case here in England.

Pardoning a known criminal years later just because they are seen as a bit of a scallywag is just political point scoring and trying to be trendy.

New Mexico has way too many problems for the Gov to waste time on this.

People in this country seem to romanticize certain types of behavior from certain eras forgeting most of these people were just cold blooded killers.

Its like Jesse James around here, a folk hero now, thief and murderer in reality.

good people are good
bad people are bad

I never knew Billy the Kid

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hoglahoo

yeah like Robin Hood, the original liberal

not that I mean to equate political ideologies with theft and murder... great. now I'll have to delete this post too

---

For posterity and truth.;):D

If he wasn't pardoned while he was alive why should he be pardoned so far away from his time of life? Do we know something now that wasn't know then? It's possible but I don't think so. The people of his time knew more about his crimes than we do now and their ruling should stand. The only thing that would change my thoughts is if some evidence emerges that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was innocent of all he is accused of doing. Gees, goo to see the NM has nothing more important to amuse themselves with.

Lee, the best part of being a mod is being able to see your posts that you delete, they are invariably the best ones. :rofl2:

Being an American, I love these stories about Billy the Kid, and Jesse James. I feel it's a long dead American story that just keeps living. Like the movies, I can route for the Bad Guy or AntiHero, This guy has been dead for a hundred years. But the fact is he is a scumbag, and right now, America is rewarding bad behavior.

And who can explain why everyone thinks The Kid was left handed when in fact he was right handed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasterRolf

And who can explain why everyone thinks The Kid was left handed when in fact he was right handed?

---

Robert Utley the University of NM professor who wrote the definitive bio on the kid was the first to figure out that the popular photo we see of him was reversed. He was actually not a southpaw. Edit correction, he is not/was not a U of NM professor, he is an author/historian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Robert Utley the University of NM professor who wrote the definitive bio on the kid was the first to figure out that the popular photo we see of him was reversed. He was actually not a southpaw.

---

But how did he figure out the print had been reversed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MasterRolf

But how did he figure out the print had been reversed?

---

Those old tintypes were glass. If the printer laid it down on the wrong side the image would print reversed. In the bio of billy here Utley explains how he first realized the image had been printed in reverse and reprinted the same in the ensuing years. I read the book 25 years ago and cannot recall what led him to figure it out. Buttons on a vest ? The rifle ? Whatever, there was no "left handed gun" when it came to Billy Bonney. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stubear

I know the guys a folk hero (a bit like Ned Kelly in Australia and Dick Turpin in the UK), but government shouldnt pardon convicted criminals years down the line unless they were found to be innocent. For example, the Derek Bentley case here in England.

Pardoning a known criminal years later just because they are seen as a bit of a scallywag is just political point scoring and trying to be trendy.

---

Actually, its a bit more complicated than that. While it is true the The Kid killed a number of people (4-9, not the 21 he is usually credited with), and some of them were "lawmen", it is also true that the lawmen in question were part of a corrupt system that was acting to advance the economic interests of certain individuals over that of others. The Kid just happened to be on the other side of this corrupt system. The winners, as always, write the history and determine who are the heros an who are the villians. It is probably more accurate to say that both sides were cold blooded killers acting for economic gain and there were none without blame.

i actually know very little of billy the kid, i know who he was but have never really read about him. does anyone know of any good (historically correct) books about him that would be a good read? my criminal heros were bonnie and clyde and the barrow gang. i dont know why people romanticize criminals but we do :shrug: for some reason

-dan-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sinnfein

i actually know very little of billy the kid, i know who he was but have never really read about him. does anyone know of any good (historically correct) books about him that would be a good read? my criminal heros were bonnie and clyde and the barrow gang. i dont know why people romanticize criminals but we do :shrug: for some reason

-dan-

---

The one previously linked to by Robert Utely is about as good as it gets here. Our entertainment media definitely romanticizes low life socio paths like Bonnie and Clyde. I used to admire John Dillinger when I was a young kid.

In retrospect I think it was because from my perspective at the time nobody messed with him. The fact that he did the majority of his teen and adult life in prison and was shot down in his early thirties didn't occur to me then. As an adult, seeing criminals murder convenience store workers and whoever for a few measly dollars I came to realize that the celebrated criminals are cut from the same cloth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

People in this country seem to romanticize certain types of behavior from certain eras forgeting most of these people were just cold blooded killers.

---

+1.

People seem to romanticize pirates as well, but piracy itself was brutal and ruthless. Same for the chivalrous knights who would commit the greatest atrocities in the name of the Lord, as for the era of Sherlock Holmes ... that was not too bad if you were one of the idle rich and not one of the factory workers who died at 35 or one of the serfs who did back breaking labor from dawn till dusk.

People romanticize things, and while it is true that we may have lost some things, in the end this is better than what we had then.

I'm not entirely positive, but I think the photo was discovered to be reversed because of the ejection port on the rifle appearing to be on the wrong side. They didn't make rifles with a left side ejection port, only right side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruno

People seem to romanticize pirates as well, but piracy itself was brutal and ruthless. Same for the chivalrous knights who would commit the greatest atrocities in the name of the Lord, as for the era of Sherlock Holmes ... that was not too bad if you were one of the idle rich and not one of the factory workers who died at 35 or one of the serfs who did back breaking labor from dawn till dusk.

People romanticize things, and while it is true that we may have lost some things, in the end this is better than what we had then.

---

+1 to that. People tend to forget the brutality of the past. I especially find it amusing (well, at least in a sardonic sense) when people wax nostalgic about the pre-civil rights era in the US. "Times were simpler back then" when lynching was not uncommon, teen aged girls died from botched illegal abortions, people could have their careers ended for being gay or for simply being accused of being a communist, and he police and even the national guard were used to break up labor unions.

The romanticizing of Henry McCardy, aka Billy Bonnie, aka Kid Antrim, aka Billy the Kid actually began in his own lifetime with the dime novels. Why he was chosen over the other participants in the Lincoln County range war is puzzling to me. Perhaps it was the prison escape (not his first) or the fact that he more colorful than most of the others. He was reported to be quite likeable, extremely intelligent, and a friend to the underdog such as the Mexican community. He was actually a lawman at one point. He had a sense of morality. Despite the fact that he made his living stealing horses from the rich cattle barons, on two occasions, he stole horses to escape and saw to it that the horses got back to their owners. On the other hand, while most of his killings were in self-defense and there were far fewer than the 21 he's credited with, he was a cold-blooded killer. (Actually, he probably commited fewer murders than Wyatt Earp). Pardon him? Hell, no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sinnfein

i actually know very little of billy the kid, i know who he was but have never really read about him. does anyone know of any good (historically correct) books about him that would be a good read? my criminal heros were bonnie and clyde and the barrow gang. i dont know why people romanticize criminals but we do :shrug: for some reason

-dan-

---

Billy The Kid:The Endless Ride, by Michael Wallis