Oregon Bikers Help Find Answers for Vulnerable Missing Woman - Salem-News.Com
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All that help and still told to move the bike...love that it never got moved either. Great story, I'm sure the family was relieved to have their loved one back.
It's funny the biker looks like Opie from "sons of anarchy," don't understand why he couldn't move the bike though...
I'm not really sure why that last paragraph was even included. It doesn't have any relevance to the point of the story. Cool story though.
Knowing the reputation of the Gypsy Jokers I was a bit surprised. I guess I shouldn't have been, though. Most people aren't sociopaths, even among outlaw biker gangs. People generally do the right thing given half the chance.
I think it depends on whether the organization has its own code of ethics or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by joesixpack
for example, with a Mexican drug kartel, I would not count on them doing the right thing, considering they are known to brutally slaughter people along with their friends, family and pets if you annoy them. Prison gangs are another good example of a bad example.
Otoh, organizations like the yakuza or the IRA have a criminal element in which they obviously break the law, but they are otherwise expected to behave. I was told by English and Irish friends that if you were in the IRA, you were expected to not engage in petty crime / rob people / vandalize things etc. If you did you got one warning, and the second offense got you a kneecapping or execution. Such organizations have a structure in which empathy and ethics are allowed, and to a certain point expected.
Absolutely correct there, Bruno. The inclusion of petty criminals into an organization exposes that group to informants, infiltrators, and otherwise untrustworthy people. A revolutionary group like the IRA, or a well disciplined organized crime syndicate needs the same sort of members as a well run corporate enterprise.
Prison gangs are able to enforce "loyalty" through intimidation and fear simply because there are no avenues out for any of the members. The Mexican cartels (like the Colombian cartels before them) try to operate in that way, but it's not really possible outside the walls of a prison, and as a result, it can't be maintained in that manner. The Colombian cartels crumbled (or, more accurately, they evolved into organizations more like the Mafia of the mid 20th century or the Yakuza), and so will the Mexican cartels.
You are comparing motorcycle clubs to organized crime, so my point has been lost on you. "Motorcycle gang" is a media term. I was hoping that by showing a MC doing something positive,I might be able to get people to realize that if you only hear negative news about a group,you will think negatively about that group.
SYLO!!
Great story! Nice to hear something good about an MC for a change. However, I am curious about your point your trying to make...the 1% kind of gives it away.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyFXST
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catrentshaving
1% was a label started by the AMA (not the docs) that was later embraced by the people it was attached to. Ask the black community about the N word. Ask an Oklahoman about Okies. Taking a derogatory term,and making it a point of pride is no new concept. I guess my point is: Take any large group,and publish only negative things about them,and never a positive story, and soon every single person in that group will be thought of negatively by the mainstream. Most of the older motorcycle clubs were started by returning servicemen after WWII.
Sorry, but the Gypsy Jokers refer to themselves as 1%ers. They are considered by the FBI, the BATFE and Oregon State Patrol as an organized crime organization.
ok, at this point I am gonna just shake my head and stay quiet.Quote:
Originally Posted by joesixpack
Sincerely,
A proud Okie
I'm not saying that anyone who is a member of a motorcycle club is ipso facto a member of an organized criminal enterprise, but we're talking about the Gypsy Jokers, not the Kiwanis or the Rotary Club, or even 99% of the other motorcycle clubs out there. Do you think that just because the Hells Angles have a toy drive every Christmas that they don't also move millions of dollars worth of meth? Hell, even Al Capone set up a charitable institution to get milk for poor kids. Actually, the Hells Angles motto says it all, "When we do right, no one remembers, when we do wrong, no one forgets". Notice that they don't actually deny that they do wrong? No one here is suggesting that Harley owners are criminals. The issue is not the hardware someone owns, it's the associations that they choose.
I think your story illustrates a very good point, which is that most people, regardless of their background, will do the right thing when given the opportunity. And like I said in my initial post, it shouldn't be that surprising when it does happen. But don't think that this example somehow proves that they're not involved in (according to Wikipedia "Gypsy Joker" entry, at least) "Armed robbery, arson, assault, counterfeiting, drug trafficking, fraud, gun trafficking, homicide, identity theft, motorcycle theft, prostitution"
The non-bikers will never understand, its either in your blood or not. I'm OK with that though. I just don't like non-truths & folks spreading rumor that they don't have a clue about.
At one point last year, not sure if it's currenty, but if you rode thru Rockwall, TX on I-30 you were likely to get pulled over if you had a black jacket or vest with any patches that could be construed as "colors". There is a group of bikers in Idabel, OK that have quite a "reputation", but every encounter I've had with them has been like any encounter with...well, anyone.
In other words, folks shouldn't let a bad apple ruin a whole bushel.
And because you read it on the internet it's true...that's ashame. I'm with the Okie, shaking my head and done with this conversation as it's going nowhere.
First off........ wikipedia,really? You realize that ANYBODY can edit Wikipedia,right? And yeah,association is the point. By association, you are calling me a criminal. Has nothing to do with what I ride,but who I associate with. Before you say "But you are choosing to associate with criminals", I don't.I associate with ppl that demonstrate loyalty and honor. Much the same reason that I am on SRP. I judge individuals........individually. It is a concept that I picked up from my folks.
Are you a Gypsy Joker Harley?
Not because I read it on the web, I live in the Pacific NW, the Gypsy Joker territory. No, they don't ride into towns raping and pillaging but they are involved with quite a few run-ins with the law locally. And for a variety of things not limited to moving meth. All of the bikers I know are fine. I don't judge a person because he has a bike and wears leather, I do form a bit of a bias if they have colors though. And for good reason.Quote:
And because you read it on the internet it's true...that's ashame. I'm with the Okie, shaking my head and done with this conversation as it's going nowhere.
Ok now...
I understand not regarding all MCs as criminals, and I totally get that.
However, Hell's Angels and Outlaws are undeniably criminal organizations.
In Belgium, there has only been an official outlaw chapter since a couple of years.
several of them are now in jail for murdering one of their own. Those put away also had a long criminal record.
There is also a war between the Hell's angels and Outlaws, and every now and again, they raid each others' headquarters, beat up and / or kill some of the other guys, and at one point, one of them fired an RPG at the HQ of the other.
While I agree that not necessarily everyone in those MCs are hardened criminals, I think it is fair to call both criminal organizations, seeing as they regularly kill members of the other MC, and getting arrested and convicted for weapons and drug related charges. With everything that has happened over the last years, I can't really call them harmless biker enthusiasts with an independent lifestyle.
Belgium is not that big, so if anything happens between those 2 it makes the news.
FWIW In my youth I hung out with several bikers, and those I knew were fine (though sometimes rather rough) men. I don't really have anything against bikers by default.