Newt Gingrich

The 2012 election news is slowly getting up to speed, and with Obama being the dem candidate, news primarily reports on the republican side of things.
Apparently, Cain is now supporting Gingrich, but I am wondering about his chances.

From what I have read up until now, Gingrich has no moral compass and has done some very amoral things in the past, like having affairs when his wives were sick, serving divorce papers to a wife in the hospital bed, and leaving his wife with not enough money to pay for the hospital bills.

American Conservatives traditionally put a lot of importance on family values and strong morals, and Gingrich has neither, so I think it is strange that he would have an actual shot at the Republican nomination. But news of the upcoming election is still very sparse here so I am not getting the full picture.

Does he have an actual chance, and if so why doesn't his behavior turn the Conservative voters away from him? Or is he only running for the attention?

In many ways he's the exact opposite of the recent republican talking points - long term washington establishment, getting extremely rich off politics, elitist and a general pompous jerk, extremely condescending....
But I think a lot of conservatives realize the tea-party style hard line uncompromising ideology usually means incompetence and after the fling last year they're now worried.
As far as his morality, the story would be that he's now found God for real and the all the old sins should be forgiven.

And Gingrich is well connected to the big money which buys a lot of votes, propaganda shouldn't be underestimated. I believe that Ron Paul has been pretty high in the polls and everybody seems to consider him having extremely dedicated and enthusiastic base, but he keeps being treated as having no chance whatsoever. He's the most principled and consistent of all candidates, but despite what they'd claim when push comes to shove most people don't seem to care all that much about integrity, they prefer the person who'd tell them what they want to hear.


Eventually among the people who threw their hats in the ring there isn't that much choice, and as much as the conservatives don't want Romney they still have to pick somebody else instead. I think at the end of the day it'll be Romney. The big money will be just fine with one of their own. The christian political fraction will grudgingly support him against Obama, after all one of the things against Obama was that he is muslim and terrorist :)

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Originally Posted by gugi

As far as his morality, the story would be that he's now found God for real and the all the old sins should be forgiven.

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Offtopic: I've recently listened to a Pastor going into this argument.

He basically said that Christians have to forgive. the bible is very specific about this.
However, he also said that that does not mean there should be no consequences or limitations.
For example, you'd have to forgive a philanderer, but it would be perfectly fine to put limits in place, preventing him from having prolonged unsupervised contact with members of the opposite sex again.

Forgiveness does not change anything about the offender. Forgiveness for past actions does not change the likelihood of future behavior. If the offender has a defective moral compass to begin with, he will still be like that after he is forgiven.

I'm not an expert, but from what I can tell the view among many traditional christians here in US is that the only true moral compass comes from God. So, once a person has truly turned his heart to God, he's got fixed and it's all good.
It's like president GW Bush - he had a problem with alcoholism earlier in his life, but by the time he was a candidate he was over it and I think he really was not touching alcohol anymore.

And at his age Gingrich probably has lower level of testosterone, so philandering may not be an issue anymore.

It's not a legal issue either, so whenever it's brought up it'll be treated as a negative smear campaign. He'll be forced by his campaign advisors to change the narrative for why it happened, though :)
I don't think "There's no question at times of my life, partially driven by how passionately I felt about this country, that I worked far too hard and things happened in my life that were not appropriate" is very convincing, especially since his hard work for the good of the country at that time was trying to impeach Bill Clinton over Lewinskigate.


In the last elections McCain had a similar issue in his history (much milder case though), I don't think it bothered anybody. He said that's his biggest regret he has in his life and that was the end of it.

McCain was different imo, in that he seemed a fairly decent guy who made a mistake sometime. My main gripe with him was his age, combined with his pick for VP.
With Gingrich otoh his behavior seems institutional.

Btw, the same pastor had a straightforward answer to what you said.
He basically said that if everything was because of what God or Satan wants, there would not need to be a judgement day.
Instead, we received free will, which is good because it allows us control over our lives, but also means that there will be a reckoning for our actions. Even if you are a born again Christian and look to God for your moral compass, you are still fallible because your free will allows you to make wrong decisions.

Politics.... Religion..... So far so good gentlemen! Bruno, I like what that Pastor had to say, lots of good points. Is there an election coming up? Just kidding, but without cable or over air stations coming into my house, I don't have to listen to too many ad campaigns. I just grab a newspaper or check out some online questionnaires filled out by the candidates and try to wade through the political speak to make a decision. I do got to say that it is much easier for the primaries when you have an incumbent on the other side; only one race to pay attention to. I would like to see more diversity in thought and parties instead of the established two. Newt, don't know enough about him yet to make a decision, I'll just wait until the field is narrowed a bit before I do my research. However, I think there was a picture somewhere of Mike Huckabee (from last election cycle) getting a straight razor shave from a barber!

Love the sinner and hate the sin. If a person is truly a Christian God gives His Holy Spirit to dwell within the person to lead and guide him. The person continues to have free will. Whether he will keep his mind on Christ and obey His commandments, or love the things of the world more than spiritual things, is up to the person. If he follows the leading of the Holy Spirit and "desires the sincere milk of the word" to be "strengthened in the inner man" by the Holy Spirit, or goes his own way, is up to the individual.

AFAIC it is not a sure thing that Obama will be uncontested as the democrat nominee.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Love the sinner and hate the sin. If a person is truly a Christian God gives His Holy Spirit to dwell within the person to lead and guide him. The person continues to have free will. Whether he will keep his mind on Christ and obey His commandments, or love the things of the world more than spiritual things, is up to the person. If he follows the leading of the Holy Spirit and "desires the sincere milk of the word" to be "strengthened in the inner man" by the Holy Spirit, or goes his own way, is up to the individual.

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True. You're saying the same thing I did, I think.
Even if Newt really found his faith instead of putting up a show for the elections (which is my idea) he would still be tempted and could still give in to the temptation. I think the holy spirit is more like a person in the passenger seat with a map and compass (or GPS). He can give directions, but it is still you at the wheel.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

AFAIC it is not a sure thing that Obama will be uncontested as the democrat nominee.

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Has that happened in recent years?
My memory only goes back to Reagan, and I seem to recall that since then, every incumbent was also the nominee.
It would be the ultimate 'Burn' for Obama.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Has that happened in recent years?
My memory only goes back to Reagan, and I seem to recall that since then, every incumbent was also the nominee.
It would be the ultimate 'Burn' for Obama.

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IIRC the last time it happened was when Teddy Kennedy opposed Jimmy Carter. Of course Carter , the incumbent, got the nomination. I have nothing to base my presumption on other than the poor condition of the American economy. Whether the American people will perceive that Obama is weak and ineffectual and he is blamed for the situation, or the republicans will be held accountable for their lack of cooperation , remains to be seen. If it is the former other dem hopefuls may see Obama as a loser in November and throw their hat in the ring. Not a sure thing by any means but I think it is possible.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Does he have an actual chance, and if so why doesn't his behavior turn the Conservative voters away from him? Or is he only running for the attention?

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Yes, and it will to some extent in the primaries. I don't think he's only running for the attention.

As far as morality, it could be that Newt is not seen as a hypocrite because he has this pattern of immoral behavior, does not deny it, and does not demand higher values from others. In the past, Dan Quayle for example, have been burned by appearing to put on too much of a holier-than-thou attitude - Newt may be arrogant but I don't think he has that particular problem

Regarding conservatives, I think many might weigh Obama against the eventual Republican nominee on the sin scale with perceived sins against the Constitution and tea party ideals weighing more heavily than perceived sins against one's wife, God, etc.